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| 00:00 | [Music] yeah H C door knobs to us all room evening |
| 01:03 | Chris evening to you hi Brew hello s evening I mean good morning I'm brew and everyone with us now I'm with you now yes takes me a few minutes to kind of get sorted out we we rocked up early you rocked up early said be on time to John uh there's a it's great yes this this crowd is usually early actually have a bit of a chat before we get started there's another minute to go yes yes I think I'm very bad at getting conversations going actually before gather the uh the agenda so it's it's really is just a bit of chat yeah |
| 01:59 | yeah s well I see you there I was thinking about all seas because although they'd invested in the otch project which I'm not sure is moving forward very far they clearly have all the technology capability and the interest in throwing a bit of money at such things occasionally so right you're could be yeah they might be good people to go after you offer it up to them good yes just a reminder for anyone's interested who's available the um National ecademy of Sciences methane conference starts |
| 02:41 | tomorrow yes we we'll be there France and I will be there um I've been sending them they've been they've been requesting a long long time ago they said send us your you know technical information which we've been sending sending some of that stuff um so yes um but there's also been um a flurry papers recently I don't know if you know um professor Matthew Johnson who's American um he's professor of chemistry at Copenhagen and um a Dutch guy um Martin van herpen so and they have they seem to |
| 03:20 | have a huge team around them uh so there's I can't keep up with them now they've produced two papers this year well they produced two papers earli this year and I think at least two in the last week more papers on the chemistry of methane depletion um at least one paper specifically on Isa there an Isa road map all kinds of things so it's hu you know very encouraging you know that money is being put their way and it's mainly by spark climate as I understand it a long time ago John Nissen asked me |
| 03:53 | if I could design a way to trap methane at the seabed and I said this going to be completely impossible' never be able to to do it and I started writing out a list of all reasons why it was completely impossible and every time I wrote out one I could find a solution to it and in the end I can still say now truthfully I think it is completely impossible but I don't know why to capture methan at the seabed yes I I can I worked hard a where you could put down uh several square kilometers of plastic yeah and and move it along and |
| 04:30 | spread it out so that it covered all the uh all the the bubbling up and you could then collect the Bubbles And Flare it off or take it to shore if you had enough of it all right my ice shields concept does the same thing using ice to collect it in the in the poas yeah well you need to do it in more places than where there's ice yeah um but this is creating new ice this is us the places that stepen was thinking of if I remember rightly was more like the Siberian sea which are relatively shallow Waters and aren't iced up that |
| 05:10 | much close to the coast so I'm not sure that your ice thing would be the best thing to go there yes so I I I couldn't do it really where the ice is that would be a thing I hadn't thought of as another impossibility but there are places where there isn't any ice yeah can't shells yeah the other thing is depending on the depth of water if you have deep enough water the methane will be um doubled up by backer and things before it ever reaches the surface it's also be under compression it's it's having a low a low |
| 05:45 | pressure and a high temperature that lets it go yeah we had a little bit of a chat about this um probably about I don't know at least somewhere like a year ago maybe eight eight months ago yeah um okay well it's um past our start time good evening good morning everybody um hi Bruce uh from the East Coast website maker are we going to talk about the website today seven Bruce did you want to I don't have a great Bruce can bring you up to date with with where his uh did you want to do that Bruce were you |
| 06:27 | prepared to do or do you want to a few words because we I need some help but we're yeah be glad to talk yeah we we should talk about it okay so let's put put that on uh website uh yeah yeah so that's Bruce P the BCI folks are slowing us down a bit on that that not much I don't think no but okay yeah so it's it's we could say a little bit about just if nothing if nothing else just to remind everybody uh hi Ursula Hi how are you sorry I'm a bit late sorry no need to apologize you won't be the only one um and you've got |
| 07:11 | a uh possible person joining what see if he turns up okay maybe okay it was a bit short notice for him so maybe it will be next time or this time who knows I hope so okay great to see you again Ursula teacher we love to you too uh other people turning up and John um you're John M McDonald you the the new coid but you're still moving about back full of antivirals I'm good now full of antivirals okay and France uh I'll get that dashboard it's it's a dashboard we've got to get tomorrow |
| 07:49 | France to get onto that um uh methane conference from nas national Academy of Sciences so I'll get that sort of that um okay and usually if it goes how it usually goes we we'll be the ones at the beginning that set the agenda and everybody else turns up so you know we've got free reign um so um Bruce no web website um actually H uh hunt last time I felt a bit bad he he wanted to talk about methane yeah but he's not on at the moment he's not here so let's see if he turns up anything else for anybody |
| 08:24 | uh just um there's a whole been a several us announcements about Marine CDR both in terms of some committee they're forming and also announcing a load of research projects which I can stick into the uh chat Qui briefly mention okay so hello Brian I did I hear that you just secured some more money from Elon Musk no I think we received uh the uh X prize for carbon removal Milestone award last year yeah um one thing I would like to add to the agenda is James Hansen's note of September about um uh the aerosol reduction doubling the |
| 09:10 | warming rate of the planet so I can find a link to that is this the elino Fizzles planet Earth sizzles right that is it that's there's one of dated 13th of October which is very recent oh yeah that's the one yeah sorry I didn't know it was it's within the last that sounds right the last it's even less than a week but yeah glad you mentioned that um Brian because yes this needs to be mentioned uh aerosol warming uh aerosol reduction um what what what you call it um like double uh like double like CO2 |
| 09:56 | doubling well we've got CO2 doubling anyway ER aerosol reduction so maybe just say aerosol what was it what was it fizzling sizzling it says El no Fizzles yeah planet Earth sizzles yeah I I'll try and find the link to it and stick it in the chat yeah that'll that's enough right um so need need to ask what's going to happen if you Haled it instead of doubling it half the uh what the aerosol yes yeah yeah okay you sorry if you if you doubled did it instead of Haring it okay all right that's okay Stephen I'll put you |
| 10:51 | there but that that's I know it's part of the same thing let's put it like this um yeah uh well if you if you have a thing and get one effect the question is do you reverse it if you double it and the probability is quite high that you do uh what do you mean if you put it back where it was yeah yeah yeah uh you might even be able to put it back in the better way yes exactly maybe we need to start a friends of veros souls movement like Friends of the Earth yeah good yeah yeah yeah so we definitely want to |
| 11:39 | talk about aerosols uh so we could also talk about um if anybody knows about Jim Hanson saying we're Flying Blind we may have said something about that last you know we need a sat that was the paper we talked about last time I think wasn't it okay all right so he mentioned it again um well so we don't know if double the aerosol we we assume that it would it should um you know take us back where we were but but um where and how there there isn't there aren't the um instruments to tell us but we could say something about |
| 12:14 | that well how well exactly how you know yeah yeah I can tell you exactly how Okay brilliant well I got all the drawings so why do they want to measure it then um Steven what what do they want to do by measuring does Jim H say we're Flying Blind well perhaps he hasn't uh doesn't know about my work perhaps I should send him no he's he's talking about putting a satellite up to measure things is what he says Noah hasn't actually measured these things I think it' be excellent idea to have a satellite to measure |
| 12:46 | because that would help help you decide where you should do your Marine CL rening be great the thing is that the ship tracks uh are con concentrated where the ship owners want wanted them to go that might not be the very best place to do it in fact we know there's an enormously wide range of um places and variations in different conditions so being able to pick and choose where you do the uh the new extra aerosol would be much better than just letting it happen by chance I'm intruding on your order let's |
| 13:26 | let's continue doing your event Stephen yeah so what else then folks back oh this what else anything else so um we could talk about the methane conference tomorrow perhaps uh this is just a word being annoying here so let's just do that um P say this is the penis oh should we friends is it worth saying something about all these papers and a summary of these papers from Matt Johnson and Martin Van herpin yes yeah uh so let's just say methane uh penis conference uh Copenhagen papers right okay all right anything else anyone |
| 14:32 | otherwise uh we just it's just going to have to be the US yeah that's probably enough isn't it so we got we've really got this is all kind of the same thing really this is all really about well I said okay it's um okay yeah um aerosols and then methane y okay so ready to talk about the website a bit um uh Bruce yeah um are you into that yeah just one quick second I do one more thing um I think it's back up in here I get my zoom back yeah I all right we'll just start with Chris then Bruce no I'm |
| 15:10 | ready to go oh you are okay I'm ready I need to share my screen yes please uh yeah let me just uh y go ahead please um think that's one I want um yeah so I made a bunch of changes in the um last couple weeks I think this site's coming along pretty well but what I need I think one of the things we need to to try to organize is some editing the text um I set it up so each page I I I took we had we had used to have an introduction to all this stuff used to be up on top was getting in the way so I've changed this so that each page has |
| 15:56 | got a way of of introducing it at the top instructors at the top I don't have one for that yet the idea the idea is for all these different pages we have to have we I need this text I need help with that text okay let me just say a little bit just to bring get people uh at the starting block here SE and I spoke with um Bruce uh what is it about a week or two ago or something and identified these different uh data Bas entities so there's different so the the this website is essentially it's sort of a |
| 16:33 | database of these connected lists related lists so we have a list of Technologies and then a list of of methods that Implement those techn Technologies um and actually the methods might Implement one more than one technology is is that right seev you know certain methods um yes there are some things which uh have got uh multiple effects uh for instance not only um we've got effects as well CDR yeah so um so we're trying to uh we've been trying to sort of um tightly Define you know or sort of uh yeah okay Define |
| 17:14 | what is a technology technology uh we have these Technologies like um increasing other would it be increasing alido or removing methane so so ions ion sold aerosol might do both of those or fertilizing the ocean might do all three of those things it's different Technologies but it's all just one method it's iron Sol aerosol and then different projects so seev has his um SE atomizer project and we've got our various projects they're all projects that Implement Isa um and Bruce if you don't mind was it right so the last |
| 17:46 | thing was it was effects so we've got effects here so what effects do they have I suppose that sort of bits how do you know effects are not quite the same thing as Technologies are they no anyway so they you could say so what um Bruce is saying is you know each of these has a menu and then from each thing but we said what are we on at the moment we're we're on effects right now okay so ads to ads to ship speed or fuel effici so this is where we Define our list of of effects and then someone's got to hook |
| 18:17 | up all the different effect what what each project is it the projects that have different effects right yeah methods methods and projects methods and projects have effects so we can see what the effects are uh and so this is this is the idea of trying to sort of connect them connect up all these ideas um so maybe I should just go quiet and let you go back to saying what you're saying Bruce yeah I should have I should have I forgot everyone's up to speeding all this stuff yeah but you got all these main four |
| 18:45 | tables and then one of the problems we if you notice I think all this stuff came out of Seth's uh spreadsheet and um a lot of these things have a lot of text and the question is how do we come up with what an agreed upon list uh you know what's Mobility uh what's more fish uh uh this this is a very very long description but we need to be able to do is come up with a list of effects and each each effect can have a short description and a long description and so we need to be able to do is so when I |
| 19:23 | go on to like for effects I go on to a method and I come to a method and I here's my here's my effect and each of these things has a mouse over where I can display more text that explains more about the effect so I don't have to have a very very large uh description here I can shorten the description and then have a much longer uh shorter short description which then talks about it and that that would then show up on the um uh when I when I go over I pick a pick pick effect so what we need one of |
| 20:00 | the things we need to do and is and then one more thing each technology method project effect has to have one owner or multiple owner well you can it can have one owner or it can have decide there's a Noak or or or or owner but we need to be able to have someone who go in and modify all this stuff and make all these and come up standardized it come up with with new words new text for all these things so that when someone comes to use it it'll be like easier to easier to understand easier to follow and can see who's done |
| 20:32 | it so and see who's done it right who last updated who changed my my definition there oh that was um whoever you know John's and changed so if I go into I've got my own right here so I'm logged in as myself so I have my technology and I have ADD I added it today and I updated it today excellent you want be able to keep so I can put in but if you so each owner of a of a technology or a method or or an effect or a project will have an entry edit form where they can go in and add information about the the tech the |
| 21:06 | item a short description and a long description of it so we need to figure go go out somehow and figure out who the owners of all these effects are who all the methods are all these Technologies are so that some as some we can assign some sort of responsibility to go back in and to update the update the database with this information okay so people need go in and take ownership right or but I I that each one has a single owner so we first of all have to decide is who the owner is and I can go in and say okay Seb is |
| 21:39 | responsible for ice thickening and uh uh CDE responsible for uh whatever his his methodology is is buoyant flakes or climate Catalyst yeah that one yeah I think techn certainly projects each have their own owner methods and Technologies we can really have the website owners you know seev and myself and and perhaps one or two other people can can Define what you know what a a technology is and what the and what a method is so I will I will set it up so that if we can assign certain people who are part of this Noak administrative group and then |
| 22:21 | they can go in and they can they will have the ability not just to I mean right now I I put this method in but I'm the only one who can edit it yeah but I'll I'll I'll change it so seven other people we designate can go in and they can edit multiple multiple projects and have sort of shared across the whole Noak site right yeah so yeah I think we don't want so a new method uh we don't want you know every man and his dog coming in suggesting new methods because they need to see what the existing methods are |
| 22:51 | they might be sort of trying they might be adding something that we've already got you know in terms of methods and Technology as as this spreads out um you notice I have I added a particular My Method here yeah I'm I'm the only one at this point I'm the only one who can see that method want people coming in and saying it's uh I've got a way of of farming fields or whatever so there there'll be an approval process by which by which somebody has to approve each method that comes in okay great yeah and then um uh |
| 23:28 | and that that that point it'll show up so we so we we can we there will be a some some body or somebody will will take a look at those as they come in to make sure that they're okay right so there needs to be somewhere something that lists the unapproved new records listed new methods and things like that right and somebody will have to approve that and what I probably will end up doing is sending out emails so as soon as I added as soon as I add a method um somebody will get email and say hey I added a method and someone then take a |
| 23:57 | look and approve it yeah but if you are a Clive or a Sev one of our people you you can say that I have a automatic approval so if you for some people once they're once we've vetted them we can say they don't have to go through the approval process they're automatically approved okay or or I don't mind if I put something on and SE SE has to approve it and the and vice versa but okay but let's that's fine Bruce let's just do that what you just said yeah so uh so what this just in so |
| 24:32 | what we need to do is somehow decide I will get I will then get this set up uh for you know then then I need to get get email addresses and and have you all log in uh and set up and go into um everybody can go in and this is mine here and la and register okay then I can go ahead and then assign the those people who have registered to have the proper initial approval rating of four and give you permissions to edit the different records okay when will you be ready to do that or is it ready now for that this this you can you can line it sign in |
| 25:06 | right now okay right now we can uh we don't need to sign in do we because we've just got full access to it uh yes you need to sign in well we need to sign in now yeah I changed that I because it I it's I wanted to make sure that um great okay that's good so so for for me did log in I wouldn't be able to log in right now because I'm not registered or am I because I don't don't think I've got a password but my my idea was though for for the people who are who are doing it I was going to have for admin people |
| 25:40 | I not quite there yet what I wanted was a p was a self-registration um I what I'll do I will set up an email for people who want to edit the stuff uh they would they would come in with this login and they would uh I I want I want to show a maintenance thing here so so so so you all won't need to have one to log in so if you log into this Noak website Administration then you'll have access to those I'll get that set up this afternoon hang on so uh is that certain people like me and Sev or any yeah you |
| 26:21 | and S and anybody we designate can do that okay so that'll be their their normal admin normal login but they'll have admin privilege um or this this is or do they log in as admin this either way it's easier if we just log in as who we are and then we we okay you recognize as somebody that can yeah it's it's also safer so we know who's uh who's approving stuff yeah so if everyone could could cre log in and register and when you do that I think you'll get an email or I haven't set that up yet just |
| 26:59 | log in and register you won't be able to uh log back you probably can log back in again this won't be approved yet I have I will have to approve you U the whole idea is no back up one when you register you will get it you the theory is you have to get an email and then click on a link in your email to make you sure that that I have a valid email address that that someone just can't put in Joo at. |
| 27:31 | com is that working now or not working yet pardon is that working yet or not um getting email is not right but if you but if you sign in I can pretend that you have and it'll be get you set up okay so will you do that in the next week yeah I'll do that next probably tomorrow okay most other stuff is done so anybody people want to go in with admin privileges if you could at least Lo log in name name email and a password so can I try that now yeah yeah okay if I um uh how can I I've got to um so if you stop uh sharing I'll stop you |
| 28:13 | sharing uh and then I'll share do do my own share thing um see if I can get get it to work um so how do I do this uh let's bring up a new one of these uh um and it's um what is it my news is it at the moment or is it uh right my CC news yeah uh right up here uh is it's not that one is it um I got sure got your screen is it is it you could can you can see my screen I think can't you um just just uh CCR just put Noak Noak there you go my news so that's going to be uh we've got a domain name haven't we I |
| 29:01 | think this have we got a domain name that can be make it Noak yeah I'm ready I I'm waiting a little bit to um move it over someplace it's on my current website right now or internet server but occasionally my web server has problems and I want to move this to a better website by more um sturdier internet service provider right so so what are we saying then you want so us here to register ourselves while it's still on your website and then right I'll move all the data over right so for now um |
| 29:37 | people need to go in like this do they um why didn't that quite wrong it does it says it's right to me yeah except it says log out rather than log in oh okay well all right so me maybe I've been into it before right so that's okay that may be the problem yeah okay so maybe that's a problem you'll tell us when you've got that all that working then and tested and working I'm what I'm what I'm surprised at is why it's not working on yours that because oh because you got |
| 30:15 | because you got climate Catalyst going on also ah yeah okay I'll fix that for you Clive oh yeah okay that's always a bad one for doing doing the test I have I have all the websites up there and it got confused as to which one is the current one all right let's put Noak in again yeah yeah so I can't I can't log out yeah yeah I'll get that fixed for you okay all right um so all right maybe someone else should maybe if seev tries it it won't get the same problem no he he will not get the same problem uh okay |
| 30:49 | well for for a demonstration we'll do that later I could add add a bit the blue Co initiative folks who we hope to integrate with of saying that they need to um look at their own architecture a bit before they actually um uh work with work with Bruce on on how we can integrate the two websites so we we we need to look out our own stuff first before you can do a bit of that absolutely I tried to register on their website just to get a newsletter and it said there was a problem so I think they've got a bit they're still working |
| 31:26 | on their system because you can't even register for for newsletter yet on their thing so who who here would want to use this who would like who who you know Bruce sends out a you know um you know announcing you know here we are with a with our new website please log on who who would actually do is any is anybody here well we've got the we've got this the small sort of subcommittee doing it which is uh uh John McDonald um Rebecca uh myself um her and one or two others Robby chip those those should have edit capabilities for |
| 32:11 | the whole lot pretty much and then um we should be giving um edit approvals to the project owners even though the the project is a little bit infant so for instance um France might might have it for for one of the is of things yeah John McDonald would have it for his um um upwelling uping things yeah Etc yeah that's how I see us going okay okay so I think it's a small number of people sorry John yeah just one other minor variable that there's possibly technologies that uh people people outside our group have put forward or or |
| 32:59 | aren't active in the group like I'm thinking Renault director's so updraft uh invention that we would need to approach them to bring them into to edit that or or manage that in some way yeah so not necessarily just just this group there could be other techn we don't to expand it I know there could be other really great technologist outside this group that we should involve in this as well for instance the the atmospheric Vex engine that's Mich Michelle's idea yes so we would simply say get him him to him to do it if he |
| 33:39 | wanted to be part of it yeah we might have a crack at at ourselves and said okay this is what we've got so far please correct it and and expand on it yeah yeah yeah little bit more work to do there Bruce yes s toact here a little bit but Bruce has done a whole lot so far it's it's really impressive oh yeah it's a very good very good structure the whole thing yeah what one minor comment and it's it's probably I mean others might agree but the logo good simple to logo but I another option is to reverse that |
| 34:17 | and show it going down to sort of give a message of Hope rather message of Glu but but maybe it means other things to others but uh we are things are increasing but just a thought that's a l same from my sight so somebody need to design a new logo it's not a bad L yeah okay perap we have a curve showing the curve bending down yeah yeah I'd like to see I like this thing here something like this we've got a ocean and a cloud and the sun we we've got that we've amended that to actually bring in a lot of the the |
| 35:01 | ocean surface things as well we've got to got to change that that one Bruce to the to the updated one and we we're saying we're we're not going to be out of scope are are the space based ones and the terrestrial based ones out of scope yeah out of we're we're not going they're out of our scope yeah space spased is out of our scope yeah yeah so we need and direct air capture and beex is out of our scope yeah yes yeah because that's nothing to do with cooling yeah I actually I actually changed it but the but it had |
| 35:44 | the same name as the last one so if your browser cache kept the old one in I I'll change the name so it'll come up right right the next time is is that is it browser cach problem is that what it is if I it's browser cash problem so if I do control F5 well does that fix it like that you do you do one of the things which oh was it you you should have to go into your browser St and and delete the uh browser cache oh you can't just say control F5 no okay so this is a good bit bit boring for everybody yeah |
| 36:22 | I'll change I'll change the name yeah so who is is John you're an artist do you feel like making a a logo for for Noak I'll have a play with it but it's hit and miss these things yeah I can ever play with it it's it's definitely going to be better than anything I can come up with yeah okay I'll toss a couple of ideas around that's fine great thank I'll send them through that'd be fantastic John thank you very much we' got quite May to use some of the existing diagrams or adapt them |
| 36:57 | where where the you know you've got a normal up curve when it comes to warmy or whatever and then you've got um CDR which will have an effect long term but SRM will have effect on bringing that bringing that curve down much quicker yeah I think that the logo say something the the logo is just a picture isn't it's a very simple picture it has to be simple that says something about I mean the title nature-based ocean atmospheric cooling so uh and and we should add direct direct climate cooling |
| 37:38 | should be prominent in the in the words because that's what what we're on about direct climate Co Cooling in the words what do you mean in the words uh it should be somewhere on on that on that front page because that's the main thing which we're on about the description here this description here is that what you're talking about yeah yeah somewhere on there yeah so this uh so who wrote this is this Bru Bruce's doing or is this yours um seev this this um blur here at the front not mine oh that's from |
| 38:18 | Keith that's from Harvard isn't it yeah I think I think that's where it's from yeah right so we've got to take so this is all things that Bruce has just thrown in so that so he's got something there right he's just thrown it in so you know we can view the website and you know get started with it so do you want to write this out um SE or should I do that or does somebody want to take that there's a small meeting today I'm bit surprised I think you should have a crack at it because you you're the |
| 38:46 | initiator of Noak yes I should have a crack at it all right yeah okay so what got to do there uh yeah no front front text okay right okay so any other comments from any anyone does anyone expect to use this or look at it go there and who thinks this is going to be useful I will certainly learn a lot from it I'll be looking at the different um um methods and so on okay great do you um so you teach English is is that right Ursula yes you got you've gone on mute Ula yes I do yeah yes I do right okay at a very |
| 39:47 | basic level okay so but I I've already I'm going to do I'm going to use um there was a paper sent through through some time ago that um described the different um methods very kind of clearly and quite simply and so I was thinking I might well not might I will at some point soon um just try and adapt it for my UMES what's your age group sorry what's your age well there I have um both teenagers in one kind of okay so range and then adults in another but they're all they're very much learning really learning some of |
| 40:37 | the basics but it doesn't matter I'll still be able to um just you just always adapt don't you and you kind of um as long as they get the message that something that this needs to be we need to start cooling looking into cooling the Earth directly then right yeah great thank you uh uh yeah mean that's that's going to be helpful feedback you know to to see what they get out of it because we want to know what members of the public get out of it you know and you it'll have you kind of you know |
| 41:09 | promoting it to them and if they're a bit nonplused by it then you know that'll that that'll be useful feedback to us we'll know if we need I don't think people will be nonplused about it I think they will think that it's a very uh kind of logic and sensible thing to do okay even if they themselves can't do that much themselves directly they will who know they might you know hopefully they'll it just adds to the hopefully they'll tell people or they'll yeah and other people will look into it and yeah |
| 41:47 | it's always interesting some PE sometimes people just say hey this is fantastic they can't you know they can't stop themselves telling their friends to get involved and it sort of goes viral that's that's what yeah something that goes that's how that works isn't it um but then sometimes they say hey that's impressive but they just don't tell anybody it doesn't grow there's no interest yeah I I think if we can get Ursula to to change our language to to appeal to those two audiences it'll be |
| 42:16 | really good for us because we're all banish and and too involved in the detail and we need to get it across simply and persuasively and I think Ursula could could help us do that yeah okay uh I do what I can simple and persuasive because that that's the thing people say you know sort of uh marketing people say you know needs to be understandable by a school chart a school person uh and if it's simple and makes s to them then you know you're communicating okay right okay all right so that's that's it I |
| 42:59 | think there there's not a rush of people commenting on that uh so let's move on then uh to so is there was there anything else you wanted to say Bruce about any of that that's it want to go go yeah did you see the errors I was getting none of these links work for me but I've got I've got oh yeah that's because that's because you didn't I I need to clear my cash yes it's it's maybe more that it's looking at looking into the CCR stuff right so I'll get that um yeah it's also see the CCR that's |
| 43:38 | because I'm working hosting two of them on the same website so it's confused so is there something I need to do there no I'll take I'll take care of it then have you check it out pretty soon okay great okay thank you very much excellent okay thank you Bruce and seev uh right so we've got next we've got uh Marine CDR research projects announced yeah that sounds interesting uh yeah if you look in the chat I've put links to four different things several first of all from the White House they formed a committee on |
| 44:13 | Marine carbon removal and there's a document from an organization within the White House and it's the office of science and technology or something like that document about Marine carbon uh dioxide removal as ways to harness the ocean to mitigate climate change and then they've also between various departments in the US government theyve formed a marine carbon dioxide removal FastTrack action committee not sure quite what it'll do but the implication I presume is they're going to do something reasonably |
| 44:44 | quickly um and then finally there's a link to a website where there's been $24.3 million investment in Marine com oxide removal research and they've list a whole load of different projects I think there's about 13 that they've put the money into in a variety of different subjects that that's a a bit longer document the other ones are reasonably short they're only like a page or a couple of pages right so that is that this one here yeah yeah that's uh one of the ones from the White |
| 45:19 | House yeah do see that guy is from the office of Science and policy ocean climate science policy within the uh okay the I think they call it the OST in the white house if I remember rightly okay anyway you can look at those documents and there's a list of all the research projects they funding so they seem to be moving all of a sudden quite quickly in this area great but but it's all about carbon carbon removal from the it's all about carbon removal yeah so it's things like um ocean aeny enhancement um |
| 45:56 | I haven't looked through the list yet so I'm not sure exactly what they're covering but okay various things related to that right this I can't remember if we mentioned previously the EU Horizon Project is called C CO2 which is just started literally a couple of months ago um if you're not familiar with it I'll find the link and to get in the chat um was it called C2 yeah it's okay I'm c yeah a O2 O2 like that oh I do it check should be there you go you got it right strategies for evaluations and |
| 46:39 | so on yeah that's the one and they did a podcast on the um uh what do they call it plan C podcast series with Will Burns um they did a podcast people from that project talking about it just uh recently so those going to our database pardon did these go into our database we're working on um I don't know I mean there's a lot to that project um so people could track try track everything yeah well you can you can perhaps you need a list of of these external projects if you like right that um people might like to be aware of yeah |
| 47:20 | but I've got a list of projects myself which is on the uh because I working group 41 website which I can't remember if I told you about but if you go on the Gaz working grp 41 website there's a link at the bottom where I've got a set of tables of different uh Technologies techniques that people are doing um I haven't tend to those do not include pure research projects these are ones with were actual um sort of entrepreneurs trying to actually do things rather than just do yeah click on that and gu scroll down to the |
| 47:55 | bottom right down the bottom yeah and then down the bottom if you click on oh no there where it say the bit ocean climate intervention proposals yeah and then here click on here right ah download something a spreadsheet um it's divided into five tables um mainly because there are some of these proposals that got very little information so the first one is the more ones where there's more information if you scr down second table is those with relatively limited information or almost none in some cases um and then |
| 48:35 | there's um keep going then there's the uh the ones with less information okay right and then there's the these the table three is where they're extracting CO2 from the ocean but actually utilizing the carbon outside the marine environment are you taking it to land okay right and then table four is a set of projects people who are sort of supporting or enabling ocean CDR either doing things like mrv or stuff like that and aiming to help others do the the CDR yeah little table at the bottom of albo |
| 49:19 | techniques or similar can you put that in the chat the URL to that in the chat yeah well that's basically there so if I put that the other one is a Google link so you could put the actual table link directly uh you go to where it says here again yeah okay yeah yeah yeah yeah which is there right click uh open link I want to say sa copy link address copy link and in the chat yeah yeah I'm trying to get it up to date but um it uh things change quite frequently at the moment but as I said before I'm not |
| 49:58 | including pure research projects I'm only including people who are sort actively developing things looking like they're trying to move to towards trials and things like that so right generally speaking unless unless there are research projects they're doing quite active sort of in the field research then I wouldn't include them I someone who publishes a paper on its own and nothing else then I wouldn't include it in the table yeah they've got so've got to be actually raised money in doing |
| 50:23 | something got be doing things yeah fair enough again should those go into our into our database yeah yeah well anyone can include it's a public document so you know right yeah we can grab it for our own the ones in Yellow by the way are the ones the new ones because the when each time I update it I flag up those that are new to compared to the last version so that people who've seen it before know which ones are new ones and which ones aren't okay so yeah company is does a type a um sort of like a a technology |
| 51:00 | sorry the type would be a technology the category would or what would the project I think project well yeah yeah you you may have different words for that but effectively yeah I mean uh so the category is in terms of what near most of them are mcdr apart from when you get down further down the table one variety or another um and then the type is the more specific type of MC CDR I'm trying to open it and I can't you can't open it no what are you getting try going back to the actual Gaz website and go from there |
| 51:43 | then you can go if you look at the chat just go back to co sea2 I CDR and scroll to the bottom Seth I can I can open that one but I can't open he means this table here yeah if if you go if you Seb if you go to ww. gam.org slash slor slash groups and then 41 then scroll to the bottom as you saw before right okay I I'll I'll I'll try and do that later on okay okay so that's lots of uh websites OT lots of announcements there for us to look at and certainly in a minute can I just ask on that um on the all of those |
| 52:44 | uh projects how many of them is there any sense of scale like how big they are and and um most of them are still at initial early stages I mean they includ people like Planet tree who started doing field trials um people the those that are in table one they're mostly getting actively into field trials the when you go down table two there's very little information so they're probably not some of them may not be very active and certainly not doing anything at scale um I don't think anyone's doing anything at really big |
| 53:17 | scale I mean planetary and uh Ed carbon have got ongoing projects with with Partners currently um several of them have got quite large Investments I think planetary got $20 million um captura which is a CO2 extraction from the sea got 10 or $4 million I think and so on so some of them have got quite a bit of investment from different sources and is that is that level of information available in that table if you uh if you just look up their website I think you'll find it on the website not in the table no I haven't tried to |
| 53:54 | capture that because not not all of them have got those sorts of Investments so some there be quite a few blanks CU some of them are still looking to try and gain the Investments there's a limited number at the moment I'd say who got substantive Investments I mean some of them have got X prise money uh like Brian um but quite a lot of are on the X prise site but they've got almost no information so I got Knows Why X prise even put them on the site because literally you can click on them and there's nothing there I mean I think |
| 54:25 | that the thing that we would all like to know is not so much dollars and cents but gigatons of carbon um you know what's what is the potential of these Technologies over what time scale well if you look on their website some of them will tell you that um I you know it's it's it's it takes time to delve into that sort of stuff haven't tried to collect that t information yet okay there a matter of Interest a matter of had a meeting with deot last week about funding and and they said have you tried the um inflation |
| 55:02 | reduction act us White House infl inflation reduction act I I hadn't considered that uh from Australia but uh has anyone had any experience with it what what is it well Biden's inflation reduction act the IRA where all the money for their green projects is coming from in all sorts of areas including those projects I just mentioned yeah so it's interesting that's not just restricted to us funding it it can be anywhere around the world cently I guess it be easier with a US partner perhaps I don't know right yeah probably right |
| 55:38 | yeah I would have thought so just an option we're happy to volunteer in that regard as a oping or fiscal sponsor organization at the climate Foundation um happy to look at Ira projects uh they're projecting more than tril ion Dollar in benefits May AC through that legislation so happy to explore that and see if clate Foundation count fiscally sponsor such projects it's perfect one for you Brian yeah climate Foundation to fiscally sponsor a project so Brian what are you saying you're saying if if we've if |
| 56:17 | we've if we've got a project and we come to you you you'll uh of what do you mean fiscally sponsor well it's a technical term for in Australia what we call oping but it's effectively uh providing a nonprofit home a foundation so to speak for projects such as the one we're doing standing up Reb brighten. |
| 56:45 | com using wind energy and we're thinking about Marine solar for uh Marine Cloud rebrightening that's just one example of uh fiscal sponsorship but but of course with Ira projects a larger scope can be considered as well and we're happy to consider such projects at the climate Foundation fastic Brian thank you so we could come to you and say do you like if you and you if you say yes we like I like your project or climate Foundation likes your project there'd be some funding help would there uh no no fiscal |
| 57:17 | sponsorship is all about providing the organizational framework to go and seek funding together okay and um now that we're registered on sam.gov and the other you know we can we can actually apply and beat Prime contractors on government contracts with US government including the IRA that is a amazingly you know feels like a half year long process to get suitably qualified but we are current in that regard and thus have applied for several US government grants this year okay fantastic thank you bran yeah so did you say |
| 57:52 | s.gov yeah sam.gov is some system of award management that is required of all US contractors okay sam.gov correct right uh okay so part of the Byzantine bureaucratic Pathways that are necessary in order to stru the government properly well um yeah I think they have to have something so uh it's useful to know that I'm not trying to criticize it that's useful wor yeah thank you very much yeah that's great okay uh all right so uh what else um do we have um is there anything else to say that's rather useful that Chris went |
| 58:35 | somewhere quite useful I've anything else I just wanted to flag those up to folks and make them aware yeah thanks yeah uh because that's also useful to us with the Noak website really to to look at uh the structure that you've got here I mean you've got uh your own structure yeah I mean I just came up with that as a convenient for me but I mean maybe it ought to change anyway I ought to update it at some point probably but I've just haven't got the time at the moment fair enough yeah okay |
| 59:02 | okay all right then okay so next then um Brian uh Jim Hansen's notes basically yes I have a favor to ask of Chris and that is if he can pull up the uh El Nino Fizzles and um find that um it's in the chat so if um you want to pull it up live it's just under the list of I just said previously yeah was referring to yeah yeah there's a a figure two I believe is a very interesting figure to talk through um if you take a moment am I sharing yeah scroll down to figure two very good figure two bottom of the page |
| 59:45 | that's it yeah yes figure two um so this is a very interesting history i' like to talk through briefly and that is a global temperature and in particular uh we'll start in the 1880s where we started seriously burning coal but what's very interesting is the temperature drop that occurred over the coming following decades and that's because not so much CO2 in the atmosphere had accumulated but there was an enormous amount of aerosols produced by all the coal burning and everything else and so that |
| 1:00:15 | was enough at the time and of course the time scale of the uh aerosols is a week or two and the time scales of the carbon dioxide is a millennium or two and as and as a result um you you know the the burning of coal actually had a negative temperature effect over the first couple of decades now if we fast forward to let's say the World War II time area and afterwards it you know we could we burned a lot more during in after World War II but it had kind of a neutral effect because by that time we' accumulated some carbon dioxide but uh |
| 1:00:47 | and it was getting liar but but the aerosol effects were effectively providing a neutral a neutral result then in the 197 we actually passed the Clean Air Act in the United States and Europe and that eliminated terrestrial aerosols terrestrial sulfates and note that suddenly we were getting more of the global warming we were paying for and of course that the hockey stick is beautifully correlated with the passage of the Clean Air Act and the loss of aerosols fast forward to 2020 with the IMO having prohibited uh Marine aerosols |
| 1:01:19 | and that is the sulfates and Marine bunker fuel between 2020 and 2023 and then we have we have doubled the rate of global warming to the yellow zone we've gone from 0.18 degrees Celsius per decade to3 uh degrees Celsius per decade which puts us on a track to exceed two degrees of Celsius warming um by 2040 and it's just uh you know we're we're in a whole new era now with a doubled warming thing and and I think James Hansen is right that the aerosols are driving the warming more than even CO2 at the moment |
| 1:01:53 | so uh it's a profound effect fact that we're getting all the global warming we've paid for we've eliminated the the cooling aerosols and we've got all the all the CO2 so welcome to our bold new world and uh I think James has spot on with us yeah yeah I think he also mentioned the Chinese cleaning up pollution as well right as well as the shipping was interesting a lot to be said yeah his projected Peak is outside his accelerated warming range so it's even worse than he thought weeks ago oh |
| 1:02:26 | yeah we're in a whole new world here in 2023 and you know with the Antarctic warming and the loss of Antarctic sea Ice uh you know I think the uh the fact that the planet is dimmer and duller than it was 20 years ago both from the series satellite from NASA and also the bigb solar Observatory confirms that we're living in a um in a dimmer and duller world and Marine Cloud re brightening and other techniques for uh improving reflection and cooling the planet become more important than than ever in this day and age and this is the |
| 1:02:56 | Advanced Data that we're going to need to get out to the world uh you know with with the help of these articles and others to really uh make the case for uh let's say rebrightening the planet and getting us back to livable conditions yeah yes thank you Brian yeah so this is what the temp we expect the temperature to go up to 1. |
| 1:03:24 | 6 in oh kind of 2025 is that right no this will happen I believe this year I think we're on track over the next 12 months to be hitting 1.7 degrees C it's going to be it could be in 2024 2024 is normally the second year of an El Nino when you get hit the peak apparently correct started early this year so and actually uh Hansen went on to say that you know after the El Nino you'll drop by about 0. |
| 1:03:49 | 2 Celsius so he's about to declare that we've hit 1.5 because if we hit 1.7 next year and it drops down to to uh you know 1.5 the year after that drops by 02 Celsius as expected then we're already at 1.5 yeah exactly yeah so it is it is a dire uh warning for the future yeah okay uh sorry I'm just wondered if there's something else to say about that well I noticed I noticed today yesterday there was a call for proposals I have to dig it out on uh Aviation and contrails and etc etc uh kind of hinting that maybe we can use Aviation as a solution to the |
| 1:04:44 | problem um and I ought to dig this out perhaps I can circulate for a couple UK thing H am I what sorry is it a UK k thing or somebody else I good question I'll have to look it up it just it was something I notice in passing uh it was a call for proposals um Let me let me just check that out um but I think is active in that regard go ahead h no sorry say it again Bri the io is active in that regard and then furthermore um I think there's the potential to seriously consider the European um Arctic routes to the US and |
| 1:05:26 | elsewhere because um there those flights actually enter the lower Stratosphere and there is a basis for considering aerosols um far from the cities but in areas that could actually help the Arctic CI substantially and be considered do a regional intervention as opposed to a bubble one so this was a call for a call for proposals on the non-co2 impacts of Aviation um and I and I guess the the question I'm more sort of broadly asking or at least not even asking the question but just uh raising the point whether |
| 1:06:07 | non-co2 impacts of Aviation is something that we as a group would be interested in being involved with well I think non CO2 positive impacts could be profound particularly the potential to introduce aerosols in the spring each year in the Arctic and um we have to collaborate on a proposal to consider that those are routes that I've flown several times and uh could actually um I think there's a there's great potential to get this in front of the uh Aviation world if it's uh IO or other proposals we'd be happy |
| 1:06:40 | to collaborate on that let me let me see if I can find that link I'll see if I can put it in the chat excellent thank you Hugh Yeah Yeah by way your uh sound is a little bit tiny Brian a little bit quiet and a little bit tiny we can just about hear you so I wouldn't worry too much but it's is that is that Brian's sound chinny or or is it just Brian that's the decan Dilemma yeah yeah let you be the judge of that H that's much better Brian yeah Brian never tinny ran is not a tinny person I'm gonna say that the the cloud |
| 1:07:16 | cover over the Arctic mostly traps heat and it only reflects heat uh for about a couple of months in sum as I understand it well uh it you know it's a mixed bag but I think there's a key Challenge and that is uh in the spring and summer time and and Early Autumn we need to be reflecting more sunlight because the Arctic gets more sunlight than the Equator does in the middle of summer so any clouds are going to reflect uh you know some amount of sunlight there's a question I think you want those you want less clouds in |
| 1:07:49 | the in the winter time and and the seasonality time scale is such in the lower tra there's a case to be made that the lower Stratosphere has a relevant time scale of six to nine months uh for these aerosols given the hadly circulation in the lower Stratosphere and its descent over the Pole right I I think the big to me the biggest scope what I would guess be the biggest scope would be for aircraft to avoid uh flying over the the polar regions during the winter during the winter so they don't trap peat in the winter right well you |
| 1:08:24 | know there the opposite effect we may find a way that they can actually help to seed clouds and reduce cloud cover in the winter time and incre radiative transfer into space well if you can uh thin the clouds with serious cloud thinning yeah then great yeah you'll give lots of ammunition To those um folks who traim that was all this spraying going on for aircraft and has been for donkeys years well the key difference is transparency right so I think if we yeah but you're right I'm sure you know don't go to Twitter you'll get twittered |
| 1:08:55 | to death yeah they they'll say I told you so yeah we simply can't control that though can we we we just just do the best we can and then ready be to be ready to take the flag okay there's a deep love of of clear sky blue skies in the human py isn't youan we get up and say oh look at a another cloud in the sky and but be careful what you wish for I mean this is this is I mean there's now an international day for clean air for blue skies we and we celebrate this International Day of clean air for blue |
| 1:09:30 | skies we're getting more blue skies and that's it's we're going the wrong direction you know we're trying to say no no it's a great day look at all the clouds up there it's a we're try to change that that thinking too yeah we need we to to put this across or just we just have to be noisy you know on on websites and things ourselves in chat so I've just looked this up it's got the name of this um uh thing about Aviation non CO2 impact is called jet zero j z o um and I guess I can see if I can get |
| 1:10:12 | the link it's it's uh jet zero and it's it's a um I think it's a UK based initiative on um with three themes one is improving your understanding of aviation's non-co2 impact number two is mitigating them and uh number three is oh where's number three can't find anyway jet zero uh yeah um so that's uh interesting yeah well we'd be happy to find some uh UK fiscal sponsors to uh you know put in a proposal about uh the Arctic routes because there's plenty of routes from London to the stes it says |
| 1:10:58 | the total the total award amount is a million pounds and the deadline for proposals is the 30th of January so that gives us a bit of time very good let's discuss it further be happy to discuss that it thank you right we've lost Steph I don't think Steven Sal is still here so I was going to ask him what what he thought about it but there we go all right um what's next then right so yeah I was hoping that Stephen would tell us about this yeah Clive can I sorry uh this is Ron Bayman hi Ron oh hi uh I just was goingon to |
| 1:11:44 | ask you if there are any similar or proposals along the same lines for um uh for ocean chipping Aerosoles in that in that uh I mean I guess I can look at see uh uh right well so this this one this particular email which I just got today uh looks at uh number one uh Network to to drive digital sustainability number two is pushing frontiers of Environmental Research and number three is jet zero so uh uh on the face of it uh no but um I will keep an eye out right yeah and it's a good question Ron by the way I contacted dalean |
| 1:12:41 | B um about your uh well uh suggestion about approaching the IMO so we've some of us have been talking amongst ourselves as well John McDonald tried and said that didn't didn't they say that um you've got to be a substantial organization before they'll even listen to you you can't or university yeah yeah yes in with Natasha Brown who runs runs PR for IMO you might like to approach her separately and I think Ellen gadan uh has good contacts there as well but yeah that was that was the feedback uh |
| 1:13:20 | it's difficult to present to the IMO as an individual you've got to be a substantial oranization okay thank you yeah we're we're actually working on that so that'll be another another reason to to formalize I mean you know turn hpac into a legitimate nonprofit and Stu but but maybe someone else can take this up yeah oh so you're working on becoming a legitimate NGO well it's very yeah we would well it's very you know preliminary but yeah we we we are looking at what you're not |
| 1:13:51 | working on is a is a project to approach the Mo I just want to see what it is you're working on oh well I mean that no not we're not doing that because uh you know we've been doing other things but so everybody's at the moment everybody thinks it's a good idea and everybody does a little bit but um but actually they're not getting approached this is what what I'm finding I mean but Dand said that uh so she she because they've got high level political connections you know Hans vandalo and wter vaner and all |
| 1:14:23 | sort of thing um they've got their high high level political connection so they are thinking of um well she said that she she told me she approach some person or other that was going to uh so I said that we'd provide whatever help we could you know so because it needs a concerted effort doesn't it oh yeah sure I can I'd be glad I'll send to Dale and gadan and you and whatever you know see if they they can move this forward I mean it doesn't matter who does it it just has to be done yeah and for for |
| 1:14:53 | Alan Guardian yeah he's got contact so he might be a so the fact that he's got contacts you know everybody feels on their own I fear that everyone you know you want to take action unless when it's a concerted effort um and you know that you've got support of many other people that will you know sign something that that that's then more helpful it sort of gives you more yeah no absolutely y y so that that's a thing that could quite obviously make a big an very important difference just simply allowing ships to to uh |
| 1:15:27 | produce aerosols it's just the simplest most straightforward thing I think we rather than you know um criticize the IMO it needs to be framed that you know this uh wasn't obvious to most people and um it's an experiment that's that's made it clear you know and in a sense they've they've carried out a very useful experiment and so forth you know I'm sure it can be framed in such a way that it it doesn't um produce huge eggon face for for for the IMO you know to to update their |
| 1:16:05 | policy or make new policy recommendations for far away from coastlines do you think Chris I mean we put we put this to you before and you said oh no there's too much political Capital they W they're not going to change it I think the issues would be practical issues first of all In terms for the shippers shipping companies um if they've got to devote space and equipment and maybe even Personnel to it it's obviously a cost to them which they unless they see a good reason for it themselves they may not be |
| 1:16:37 | willing to take it on I guess um the other thing is you still got to find the aerosol and one of my colleagues on gazam was rather skeptical you would actually ever find an aerosol do what you want that would be compatible with you know ship's fuel that was his I mentioned it to him and he was and he's an atmospheric chemist um so he was a bit skeptical that you would actually find something that could do the job but obviously you need to look we already have an example of this and that is the higher sulfur |
| 1:17:07 | bunker fuels um and if you know tanks can be managed and you can have low sulfur and high sulfur tanks if you're within yeah but the other thing Bri is the the the oil industry is obviously geared up for a lot of low lower fuels now so they're not going to be producing as much of the bunker fuel with high sulfur um so that's effectively going to be phased out so I don't think there's going to be a big capacity maybe some I don't think it would be big I suspect U Chris Steven Salter has suggested |
| 1:17:38 | injecting sea salt into the into the that that would provide some some aerosol anyway yeah I'm not sure it might not create a lot of corrosion in their flu well he he he seems to think I mean we should check that out I think yeah that's the simplest option just as something benign like like sea salts to replace the aerosols they reduced yeah that was the argument I put to the IMO I'll send you the email link the discussion I have with them so we're talk about yeah I mean clearly to sort it out you clearly need someone to look |
| 1:18:16 | into it thoroughly and with you know with with the industry if possible or someone with an industry connection and that requires uh research funding and that's something that seems to be uh very uh thin these days well um what about the IRA that we were talking about before you know and so forth and X prise Ira to my knowledge is designed towards um specifically either renewable energy or other goals and you have to you meet production targets or you know it's very contractually oriented but we can look |
| 1:18:56 | through and see I don't think it's it's funding this kind of early State research okay so that's something we have to look at carefully right uh and the X prise for carbon removal is all about uh removing carbon not cooling the planet yeah okay well okay but blue cooling I mean they like uh our approach naturebas you know uh cooling basically the fact that it's all about Cooling and and they're called cooling as well blue cooling um so and they say that they've got high level political you know access |
| 1:19:28 | to funding so they but as with everything it needs credi looking projects or credible projects um and and people uh well connected qualified people so Chris your atmospheric uh chemist friend I mean um our suggestion but Fran Fran's suggestion which I you know work with FR on is uh a um an an aerosol to be uh which we proposed to be uh dispersed made it in situ you know created in situ above the flu above ship's flu uh it's not really particularly where it's a little bit corrosive but but it can it takes on the if there's if |
| 1:20:12 | there is the nox gases from in the flu gases it takes it uses those well uh so um would would your friend be interested in our proposal if we sent details um I don't know I could try if you send me some details I could pass them on and see if he thinks what he thinks about it yeah is he can we are we allowed to know his name or is it confidential um well he's not confidential um I don't know that whether he'd be interested in you directly approaching him but he's based at based at the University of East |
| 1:20:49 | Anglia um guy called Alex Baker right but he's an atmospheric chemist with an interest in the ocean looking at atmospheric inputs to the ocean I've done a lot of work in the past on things like nitrogen and uh and other things right well we we'd probably be more successful if we went through you anyway because okay uh so um that that'd be great actually we can do that uh maybe not the next well we'll do it as soon as we can we're in this um methane removal conference tomorrow yeah I'm away next |
| 1:21:21 | week on holay as well so I be around after Thursday anyway so right okay I I I rather think that you know an atmospheric chemist and people like Alan gadian uh at least those two um together with with a little bit of you know help and moral support from from people like ourselves uh uh approaching the IMO would would be far more likely be successful you know get somewhere especially presenting the information from Jim as well I mean this is very important um okay thank you very much so we'll I'll make it so can I can I just |
| 1:21:59 | say that I put I put in the chat a link to this other thing which has just been advertised pushing the frontiers of Environmental Research uh It's a UK thing total fund 25 million um and scrolling down I just wondering whether uh looking for uh examples of facility you can apply for include geophysical equipment facility ocean bottom instruments uh goodness I mean maybe this is a kind of oceany type thing uh that um you know costs for ship and Marine equipment uh I mean maybe it's the kind of thing that we ought to look into yeah |
| 1:22:46 | looks excellent yeah so I put I put both of those links the one the two links in the chat one is the the the the jet um a jet zero and the other one is this one yeah the the other thing remember a few meetings ago I mentioned the ARA group the advanced research and Innovations agency which is only just starting up so they're still not only just getting going so we we've been in touch with them um all right good yeah yeah I've been in touch with them as well so fingers cross yeah but they ought to be open much more |
| 1:23:23 | sort of um way out their things because that's the whole approach of of that agency like arer in the in the US great yeah I emailed them didn't hear anything back but yeah uh good ARA so we keep a list of these things yeah yeah so Hugh would um Cambridge uh uh climate um repair be would you be approaching a fund like that yeah I I to be honest I just got the email today so I haven't uh haven't given a lot of thought but yes and um with support from you guys that would be very good and if if um yeah |
| 1:24:07 | we'll have to give it some thought yeah both of these are you interested in our our ideas you know Fran's ideas of we I mean we've got IRT aerosol which is now on a on a path you know it's got now got strong backing from people but but we came up with the you know improvements on it um one one reason is if there's a methane burst if warm warmer you know getting warmer and warmer and there's huge methane coming from the these shallow Arctic seas are you interested yeah and I think I mean we're at the |
| 1:24:44 | moment we're focusing on you know we haven't got a huge team we're focusing on the things that uh that we're we're currently doing so we we're looking a you a fair bit on nozzles for marine Cloud brightening uh but yes and absolutely we're not when we our um we've got to be very careful not to close doors um uh so if there are good ideas out there that need research then we we need to support them but at the moment we're a small team there's only so much we can do but |
| 1:25:18 | we can grow and we want to do it yeah so I mean if if you have uh an idea you know an ex idea um and it's credible and it's got you know you've said hey this looks worth doing something with so you've got the good the good name of Cambridge climate repair maybe that's uh more likely to you know rece illicit money from these um places like the ones you just put up whatever it was can't yeah I know absolutely and we're we're very we're extremely excited to uh to pursue these |
| 1:25:51 | so let's um right as I say I've only just received this message today uh so uh I I haven't digested it at all and um okay all right together let's move forward on this and as it looks like the dates the deadlines are not until January so uh and of course take away a month because of Christmas um and uh Boxing Day tests and all that sort of stuff great um uh okay thank you so in principle you are we've got some some work to do then to look through those links and and hook up and do send some |
| 1:26:24 | emails and get things going that's great thank you very much Hugh it's really helpful okay what else have we got we've got L we've only got five minutes left I've not been looking at the time um so um we didn't talk about methane last time so I think Steph's not here did did anyone does anyone have anything to say about satellite measurements let's talk about methane um because you mentioned that last time here and we didn't cover it yeah but all it was really just because |
| 1:26:54 | I feel as if the the the topic of methane keeps on you know it's almost like a peripheral uh subject and I just wanted to hear what people thought I I went to a talk uh a year or so ago where somebody said oh yes it's pretty it's obvious all the isotopic analysis says that uh it's all um it's the methane problem is all to do with Agriculture and Cattle and and and rice patties and so on um I'm just wondering whether that really is true uh and whether there's maybe um new information out there I |
| 1:27:36 | just don't know what the what the latest information is on methane and whether Arctic methane is a real issue or not well if I say what I is bracking methane is definitely an issue these new satellites which can tell where the methane is is coming from are really identifying a lot of the a lot of the leaks from existing Fields plus the the the Arctic of course okay but so but the thing about that is so is that if it's possible to identify the leaks in the fields You could argue that uh with a with a with a a serious amount of money |
| 1:28:16 | we can go and fix those leaks but we can't fix the Arctic methan yeah so so the question I'm really asking is can we identify uh in the quantify whether the methane problem is fixable or not fixable at source if it's fracking we can fix that at source I know and might take a bit of effort but it's fixable if it's Arctic methane it's not fixable yeah that's s yeah I mean the um that's identifi the kazak oil field as a major source of methane it was equivalent to the whole UK's carbon |
| 1:28:58 | dioxide emissions in I believe in greenhouse gas things and in fact they identified Elite from the UK pipeline somewhere around sheltonham apparently through that satellite so um my impression is that the yeah the Arctic permafrost is still significant regionally at least that's what I on my impression seeing things going by so that's not fixable per huge areas of permafrost notless you reduce temperature yeah no but but are we looking at supposing we did manage to fix all the the fracking leaks and the |
| 1:29:34 | pipeline leaks and so on does the methane problem largely go away or not no because the permafrost is still melting and and producing CO2 methane and of course maybe the places like the Siberian sea if they keep warming they'll produce a lot more as well if I remember rightly the um the data on methane levels the rate of increase is increasing it's going up more steeply than it was which does suggest it's not just routinely from perhaps the oil and gas Fields I'm still left with people saying |
| 1:30:16 | oh look it's it's not the big sources are agricultural and uh and fugitive methane from fracking Etc and that that the Arctic stuff is small don't worry about it and and I want to find I want to find the evidence the written evidence the published evidence that that is not the case well if you look up disused oil and gas Wells there are millions of active and disused I don't see how it's uh economic to cap millions of these things well most dis used ones are Capp live but they may not be all of them may not |
| 1:30:56 | be capped effectively well effectively Capp them is what I mean yeah yeah but many will be capped effectively you can't assume they're all not capped effectively okay all right so all right so that's that's interesting but at least but at least they're relatively Point sources the thing about the Arctic methane is that it's um you know once the permafrost gets going it's not going to be easy to cap that stuff no it's essentially impossible just not so are we looking at even if we |
| 1:31:27 | did even if we even if we didn't bother capping all the disused coal mines and stuff are we looking at a future where they would be small compared with the the permafrost methane yes's the evidence the Isis system does does uh help the uh the Arctic methane if you can put up ISO ISO Aerosoles you will oxidize that released Arctic methane I'm not I'm not disagreeing with that but where is the evidence that the Arctic methane as a problem is is currently or will overtake all the others shover shakov has given |
| 1:32:18 | quite a lot of evidence some time ago that it was increasing H there could be quite a bit in the nas meeting which conference which starts tomorrow next two days all about me okay so so we need to Hugh Hugh there's a a citation Oran Gustafson in Greta thurber's book on permafrost has got a lot of material on on what you're talking about right okay but there's also in these uh so I think you might have missed there are uh several papers come out from Copenhagen University uh about methane uh use of |
| 1:32:59 | iron aerosol and they they are quoting sources Hue as well so they they they are saying they're quoting papers that are saying that methane could increase between I think uh 25% and 150% that are different papers so I can send you a link I try and find it now um then um the only thing is that the people who are doing isotopic analysis uh are saying that it's not that it's agricultural methane not fossil mean do it depend where they do it though surely where the Pete lands in Africa look I I I'm not disagreeing but |
| 1:33:50 | I just want to try and find evidence to counter what people are saying uh you know saying don't worry about the Perma Frost and I'm thinking are these people funded by the fossil fuel industry or I don't know don't know what to believe yeah uh I'll have to find this and send it to you here we go somewhere like this um this methane this methane meeting the next couple of weeks sounds like it'll be very useful no it's tomorrow and the next day oh okay next couple of days right gotcha yeah a |
| 1:34:19 | National Academy of Sciences of the US yeah it's it's who's who's who's attending that I'm going to be there and there I'm gonna try and dip into it tomorrow I may not on Wednesday because I've got another meeting well if you could if you could uh really extract as much information as possible that would be great yeah well if I just send you this link I think you'll find things in here here I can't quite find it exactly the other person that contact is you and Nisbet who's a |
| 1:34:50 | bit of an expert on methane and he's actually talking at that conference tomorrow think well I'd be very interested to see what you and this it says because I my recollection was that he was very very much saying that the isotopic analysis suggests that it's all um uh agricultural well things can change yeah yeah but that's of course they can and I just want to hear if they are changing yeah yeah I what can be said is most of it's a biogenic origin which would include uh subpolar permafrost and |
| 1:35:28 | submarine permafrost as well exactly so that's what and I think that that's a bit of a confusion the difference between fossil and biogenic yeah I think that's accurate and there's some good ways we can use satellites to estimate some of the um methane emissions from uh terrestrial permafrost if not submarine permafrost yeah uh and the paper that was few months ago from Martin Van herpen measured uh it measured the by measuring chlorine uh uh oxidation of methane by chlorine atoms by mineral dust which they actually |
| 1:36:12 | measured in the Caribbean and cap verie Islands they noticed a maybe France can get this better than me that a different uh isotopic difference in the I think it's carbon monoxide reaction product and from that the there's a different you get a different concentration of a certain isotope which tells you um so his one of the conclusions of his papers his that paper was that because of the this isotopic difference he was he was able to say that actually they've been uh um they they've been misestimating they've been getting it |
| 1:36:54 | wrong basically the amount so whose paper is this this is this is this is Martin Van herpin saying there actually less from fossil fuels and more from uh vegetation from Rice patties and natural sources Wetlands yeah yeah so that that's that was his paper so I could send I could send you that one Hugh useful and this one is uh a preprint here from Matt Johnson who's the professor of chemistry well him and his team basically he's in there so Martin man herpen's there as well and Matt Johnson is there so he's the |
| 1:37:29 | professor of chemistry at um at Copenhagen and so this is a road map exploring mean Ral approaches research roadmap for chlorine radical enhancement so basically use of well iron salt aerosol and they they mention others but it's m mostly concentrating on iron salt aerosol so and I and I think I had it down here somewhere so uh the increases here so expected increases one estimates natural emissions could increase by 20% Which would be so that's 50 uh 50 million tons to 150% so 300 million tons so and the as I |
| 1:38:12 | understand it the annual emissions of methane is 600 million tons in total roughly y so that's that's here so I can send you that you that yeah okay we've had anything else folks they are yeah so so that's that's I think you've got something to who who was that that was John wasn't it Y what are you saying John oh sorry it's just just the methane tracker certainly shows wed Lance as being the major source it's it's pretty obvious where it's coming from but uh track the the |
| 1:38:53 | Thea National energy agency methane tracker yeah okay thank you John they get that data from I guess well I'm not sure you but uh it's that they've gone into it in chapter and verse all the sources all the different anthropogenic and biology and natural they've analyzed the whole thing so that that might be the best best source of that information would Wetlands include Siberia I think I think it's meant to M mainly mean I think there are huge swamps in Africa which are quite hot yeah it's yeah swamps uh Pete lands um |
| 1:39:37 | stuff like that and uh also the many dams were what is hold back they have uh anerobic sediments and produce yeah Dam yeah so that's all and then other other source is uh below the ice sheets of Greenland and Antarctic there is so many methane and the Melt water uh permanently brings it out there are also enormous pet lands in the Congo that are under threat due to a deforestation proposal or plan to plant more palm oil trees there and there's a huge amount of Pete associated with the uh Pete lands of the |
| 1:40:35 | Congo and that's releasing methane because I'm sure they're releasing a lot of CO2 Ryan is is that yeah that's some of the largest um largest Pete reserves on the planet um as in a Central African location it's it's it's known that Pete produce lots of methane okay methane as well good thank you France so has anyone got any is has anyone got any good news to end this meeting with well good news is you can we get these four um preprints from mitt Johnson and uh Martin Van hen and Fen and uh it |
| 1:41:21 | looks good what they say about U Isa to get it uh the atmospheric uh um methane uh depleted by by clorina atoms that's true that's promising yeah and the good news I think is methane and chlorine they can also produce uh organic chlorine but they found out that it is a very low level of organic chlorine all right so in other words chloromethane you don't want too much chloromethane getting produced so so this was the fear then it's mainly it's mainly uh monoch chlorine methane yeah is there a link to the Von herpen |
| 1:42:19 | article uh I tell you the it is the paper of uh Kooks bell marttin krooks bell and you say you were going to send it round Clive yeah I mean I can send those papers I you can send in I'll send links to uh to the Noak group um to all those papers I'll do that tomorrow uh there's I haven't even read them all myself um what do you what do you think OA what do you think about all this are you are you optimistic or is it all pessimistic are your muted urula no I think you're all um uh I think you're all uh very |
| 1:43:16 | constructive and intent and very determined to find Ways and Means of um of repairing the of repairing the climate um the funding it's it's good news with the funding as well that there are some possibly some forced some ways of getting hold hopefully of some funding for research um and yeah you I I Al I I find you all very kind of um POS kind you know doing whatever you possibly can to um do something about the situation so no I I find it quite um whilst you're all very realistic you're also you are diligently working towards doing |
| 1:44:18 | something about the situation good of you to join us uh for these meetings I agree thank you for allowing me to be here I feel very honored to be able to you know to be able to to hear what's going on in the in the scientific world of you know the cooling um people who advocate for cooling which seems to be the only way really to or the you know the way that will quickly have an impact uh whilst we wait also for the um Net Zero to finally make do something too but we really must do something faster so thank you for allowing me to |
| 1:45:07 | be here yeah thank you orisa I think it we need to increase our um diversity and get multiple uh Generations uh involved I'm and I'm going to end on a positive note and that is uh I'm going to quote that uh famous uh UK Optimist Winston Churchill when he said you can count on the Americans to do the right thing after they've tried everything else very good Brian okay everybody thank you very much cheers CS I I I recognize the view out of your window there Brian it looks very nice lovely thank you so much for visiting us over |
| 1:45:46 | the last 12 months Hugh and uh yeah we're hanging in we got a nice spring it's a little too hot the hottest September on record and yet the coldest September we may feel for the rest of our lives oh goodness gracious and hey look uh seev I'm going to be in Melbourne over Christmas so I might come and visit you that' be lovely H look forward you we've got a a lovely Mountain Retreat cooler than most well that's what that's what it's like up at Madan yeah I'm going mour I'm confused seven |
| 1:46:19 | Melbourne in the in the Hills outside Melbourne Mount MC okay but which country austral Australia oh thank you excellent seev I'm glad to hear that go look forward to catching up you're not a calling with supporter are you s no no I'm Melbourne very good just checking you know |