| (Click on a 'Start Time' to view the video) |
| 00:22 | morning Seth wedding how goes it oh very well thanks Stephanie uh there's an interesting little cartoon I'll just uh put on on chat which you might okay I just tried by the way to connect to you to the link you sent but it said um it said access denied uh request access so I clicked request so you might have an email it's saying it anyway we'll have a look at this cartoon good morning Brian looks like Brian is in the process of connecting yeah your email has not yet come through but uh okay I gotta I mean I can show |
| 01:09 | you what it looked like no don't don't worry I I I'll yes I'll give you it give you naturally had access hi John uh hi Brian morning Brian what time is it for you Brian at the moment 6 a.m 6 a.m a little bit of a reach yeah thank you for getting up at such a Time at how much sleep do you mind me asking Brant Brian how much sleep did you get last night uh my goal is seven hours a night but um actually seven hours per 24 hour period of which five five hours should be at night but I haven't asked my Fitbit if I |
| 01:49 | got to five or not okay so you don't know yet yeah seven hours is just about okay I think isn't it at our age if you have a nap in the day two hour nap in the day or something five hours at uh the previous night it's not too bad a minimum I would say at least what a a five and then two yeah yeah I think you're right it's a good Global schedule yeah hi Doug and Friends hey how are you doing good good um Doug um uh did you see the email from Paul Anderson I'm hoping he's going to turn up today |
| 02:38 | I've seen several which one but he's okay he's saying uh why don't we put together some materials that have a wider reach like videos and whatever and I said as I said is anybody playing I said yes I'm planning to do a flyer and uh and a video um could he help with graphics and he said um maybe Doug can help with Graphics I saw that one but uh have you forgiven me for for uh my sort of um tyrannical Behavior about three or three years ago or something when it was or have you forgotten it if you've |
| 03:17 | forgotten it then let's just move on it struck me which was that oh never mind never mind back back in the day restore our climate and all that sort of thing and all those heady days long time ago now what was the question do I remember something yeah yes I'm glad you don't so let's move on probably do remember it's just suppressed uh wow yeah okay but anyway I keep going back to the who's the um who's our audience how many audiences do we have and uh um kind of tired of saying that over and |
| 03:57 | over but now we have a new fella he's really a sweet guy he's he's 70. uh by probably 77 78 he's a 30-year 34-year professor um does biochar in Kenya is this Paul Anderson yeah yeah yeah yeah um and we'll see if he comes along today hello Peter hello hi um I can't see you oh something wrong weird on the I can hear you okay I'm I'm here I can see you and I can see my own picture on on the sort of little screen so I think my camera's working okay okay thank you how about all the rest of |
| 04:44 | us Peter can you see all the rest of us no I can't see anybody um or maybe you should take off your sunscreen there or whatever you might have zoom knots not the active window or something yeah uh hi friends you made it back in time what what did I do you said that you might be late because you had yes but uh I think I can do it right okay well it's uh someone sent this who's this from uh it's time to start um okay let's let's come back uh okay uh good morning good evening everybody what do we want to talk about today |
| 05:38 | so that don't forget this is uh it doesn't have to be you know it could be anything you know uh something you want to mention a question you might have for somebody else here anything anything under the heading of you know in the topic of uh nature-based ocean atmospheric calling I I've put up a interesting cartoon which came out recently from one of our Tasmanian cartoonists you should see it in the chat about krill um should I bring that up then let's bring it up I'm sorry this one here uh oh this one here |
| 06:23 | let's just get rid of this so I've got some how do I get rid of all this now um yeah put the X on the right thank you thank you thank you thank you right hey don't cruel yourself Humanity first dog on the moon yes oh this one here is it yeah yes yes all right um I I think let's we can put this um on the agenda uh to look at it later um okay uh Sev or just um people might if put it in the chat anyway so that'll appear in the chat foreign I have a probably probably an easy one but um you know James Hansen has come up with |
| 07:17 | this 10 degrees equilibrium level and it used to be three degrees and and Michael Mann is saying well it's probably even less than that who who knows what he's saying so my my conclusion is that it doesn't matter I mean we can talk about that whether the um oceans will continue to draw down carbon and sequester heat I guess is what Michael Mann is saying after we reach Net Zero versus will it continue on uh as According to Jim Hansen we want to cease we were to go to netzua right now we would head toward 10 |
| 07:58 | degrees in a couple of centuries on that trajectory continuing up up up up up okay slightly so the question is does it really matter in the short term who cares I really need to focus on cooling the Arctic and it doesn't matter what trajectory we're on I think I I think that's a simple simple message I'd like to just throw around a little bit uh it sounds like a question uh does climate sensitivity matter in the short term is that is that what it is that's right very good very good all right |
| 08:30 | yes well good excellent okay right so okay thank you yes uh and uh I don't bully I certainly I don't uh Bill can't answer that right now and don't not sure if I understand the question probably but but we'll get to it because I'll make my case a little later yeah it sounds crucially important and also very interesting so thank you for that that's good um it's sort of thing that we all see you know the emails going back and forth there isn't always time uh to look at them properly so now's a good time to |
| 09:08 | discuss it um anything else for anyone and um a group called a green night lore in America uh putting up uh submissions to the Congress on on climate restoration and they seem quite captured by the uh the boy and flakes side here okay A a short rundown on it and they said they're they're going to put all the words in it's only a four-page uh thing which they're restricted to but that sounded quite interesting um I think we know some of us know Green Knights uh it's a particular guy yeah John Fitzgerald yeah yeah and he |
| 09:54 | um was one of the attorneys for methane action which is now part of spark climate they've been subsumed and I'm not sure if he's what he's doing now or what uh what yes I'm not sure so okay so let's say that's a nice thing actually yes I didn't know that so green uh Knights uh keen on uh buoyant flakes shall I say um I don't think you can ever enjoy it enjoy it endorsing it all right interested in in in in in putting putting burn flakes before the Congress right yeah I spent with a Capital C probably yeah |
| 10:51 | okay yeah say a bit more about that maybe who else is anyone else come along hello Clive I'm here how are you hi Rebecca it's a bit cold in Sydney and I'm just going to mainly listen today but I always like hearing discussions great well nice to see you can you can put something in if you want to you can um suggest something it could be a question you know anything um I'm mainly trying to understand the other technologies that this group is talking about and I have been looking over old email chains and I don't think |
| 11:34 | it's that productive at the moment to talk about them in summary but like I just like listening and um I've been doing a lot of watching of technical videos on the just Timber think side so um anyway I know it's not all about Marine Cloud brightening but that's the main one that I know about and I do know about Sai which is not a nature-based solution probably although it is sort of like volcanoes but anyway I just like listening that's the main thing okay I don't want to follow you on what they're |
| 12:06 | doing to save the great Bayer Reef yeah I do know about that but what I'm most interested in there is the institutional side of things because um like I've read about it and I'm some of the summaries also talk about them making links with the local indigenous communities which is really important but it's got low profile like people read about it but it's not really something that you it's not part of what the climate movement here in Australia actually thinks you'd be well we're doing it it's |
| 12:38 | kind of under the radar yes because I do get all the emails from all the different groups and like I'm a member of some of them and to me that one is interesting because it's under the radar and I don't even really think the International Community knows much what's happening because um Robert Chris met with the lead researcher when he was at Cambridge Center for climate change it's climate repair I mean and um he said the head person who I think is Israeli was on a bit of a different tangent |
| 13:10 | about some of our underlying assumptions but anyway maybe we could talk about that that might be a good idea uh so what's this the state of marine Cloud brightening well in General and in particular project in in um I think it's Townsville Great Barrier the Daniel Harrison uh project yeah yeah uh yeah I just thought of another one Clive um hang on let's just put this uh faster faster and MCB Great Barrier Reef uh uh status sort of thing something like that yes okay right okay Doug yep so uh Tom Garrow posted a |
| 14:02 | couple days ago that uh he said last week which turns out to have been I think the 14th um April 14th Russia's klushka fiscaya volcano erupted Peninsula so uh maybe we just just chat a little bit about that um there's not very much out there right now but apparently some bikers up on the mountain had a had a wild time that's all I've read not much I mean you useful uh natural experiment for us exactly yeah it is pretty close to the Arctic Circle so maybe maybe it'll flow north instead of South |
| 14:43 | was Tom that was talking yes yeah could be very lucky actually yeah and yes and we could also uh it could also take some measurements see what happens to the UV in the Arctic if anybody's there yeah okay um yeah uh I'm gonna say effect measurement yeah yeah I'm sure people are looking at it I just you know we'd hate to have it Go the opportunity lost but I'm sure there's going to be hundreds of people if they're someplace around the world watching yeah yeah okay that'd be good to be |
| 15:27 | aware of that it may reduce or increase the ozone hole there yeah it also May uh darken the white surfaces is all of the above yeah yeah I saw a video uh BBC video it's about two months old showing you know they went there and they s and it's huge this is what you've been saying Peter as well it seems like the whole well but just many many square miles of ice and Greenland it's got this black stuff on it yeah uh as if I could see if I could find it um so I think that'd be good to see actually I'd quite like to um sorry do |
| 16:28 | you mind everybody if I just find it there's a set of slides that yeah yeah uh I could pick um I didn't get those um Peter didn't get did you get some pictures from Peter um France um possibly but I couldn't make them oh you tried to open you did see something then I I could imagine that there was something but I couldn't um but this is out because I sent a set of seven slides showing black ice like Greenland and uh yeah uh sometimes my computer just does something weird um ooh yeah no that's that's uh that's not one of |
| 17:28 | yours that's a video Peter yeah that's Greenland today yes okay it's a little bit gray yeah yeah there's a lot of this graphic there so um we could come back to this um I could put you know play bits of it it's a lot to sit through and there's a lot awful lot of this uh that looks like they did it on the cheap because you have to just hear them talking uh you know there's lots of lots of gray color yeah yeah you see the gray color there uh and there's some Jason box there one of the things that it reminded me Jason |
| 18:12 | box is most of this is is this there's not much sexual footage there's some of the mulans here um there's Jason box saying well at this level of greenhouse gases um we go you go back did he say four million years I think he said um sea level was 10 meters higher at this level of so um so I guess and it's way more than the email Isn't it so anyway we can talk about that maybe as well um right so um now this is Greenland uh well we could put this uh we could talk about the ordering in a minute green and uh call it Grayland graylands |
| 19:01 | yeah Greenland or I'll say Grayland I use the American spelling yeah um I'll just say BBC video yeah um just so we're so found it shocking to see to see that um so it'd be good to just sort of if maybe at the end Peter if you if you can if you're still there at the end oh Peter's not there anything else for anyone I just I put a link in the chat that just want to bring to people's attention is called uh it's a it's a public um broadcasting system PBS yeah yes beneath the polar sun it's a very it's an |
| 19:50 | excellent uh movie but apparently Rebecca can't open it at her and maybe it's restricted to um uh freeze or something I don't know but I recommend it highly if you want to just take a look at it yeah um PBS you've got to sign in this is the US um thing isn't it the US uh Broadcasting Service yeah well I watch a lot of that actually it's very good high quality stuff this is uh this is excellent in uh we've got a watch now exactly the main takeaway I'll think of the main takeaway |
| 20:24 | by the time we put it at the bottom of the list I'll uh they'll start my brain a little bit I'd love to see the screenshot of how you get into it Clive if it's not restricted to the US because obviously looks like you've got to sign into this but I mean yeah well I've done that too but anyway right that's interesting I didn't have to sign in how about that maybe because it knows you're based in the US mine mine comes up to an image of uh looking down from a drone and there's |
| 20:53 | a link or you know like a YouTube thing you just click on it and away it goes there's no sign in uh yeah if it's on YouTube try and look on YouTube so let's let's try YouTube uh beneath the polar sun I don't think I can so let's go to YouTube here put in that's interesting I don't see yeah the YouTube logo here anywhere there's a trailer uh there's a 57 minute one I'm not I maybe it's just restricted to uh is uh let's see who's on here I don't have the who's on here that's in the US |
| 21:40 | besides me it's like oh man I Commander can you open that this filmmaker uh yeah so it's just a tray we've got a trailer 247. maybe maybe it's not um yeah see nothing and I think it has to do with what country you live in I think it's it's let's see here well on that page anyway keep I have to get uh a lot of these videos they're advertising um uh VPN software to two pounds a month and if I had a VPN I'd be you can look at doesn't matter where you are anymore we we could just watch it on my I'm good |
| 22:32 | share screen yeah okay we could look at look at a bit of it if you if you've got a bit that you can recommend okay so so we've got videos and we've got a cartoon at the end so Doug uh what's it about um Doug now it's about um these this this this exploration they went up to the uh a certain sort of um open open ocean where the sea ice leaves the Arctic and it flows right by and they were going to go flow with the go with the flow for um I don't know two or three weeks and turns out they got stuck |
| 23:16 | they couldn't Traverse because the ice was so broken it was so um and Peter probably could talk more to this it's the last point of ice or as a word phrase and they they spent their whole time trying to get out so they wouldn't starve to death um but it was so treacherous because the ice was all broken worse than it was the last time the guy came down there in 2019 or whatever it was um it's it's a pretty entertaining horrific story but it shows up close and up close and personal what what it looks like it's just Peter can |
| 23:57 | describe it I'm sure it's just massive Boulders and crevasses and impassable on Greenland is this on the Arctic so let me uh I'll I'll go find it we'll we'll bring it up a little later yeah yeah yeah Canada but my baby's between Greenland I'm not sure yeah if I sign in here uh you've got to have an account I could try that actually sign in with Google because you wanted to see this um Rebecca well I've signed in over here in Australia and it doesn't work for me and |
| 24:30 | I don't really think we should spend our meeting time on this yeah no okay maybe I mean we could at the end but I'm now that Steven's here I'm busting to hear a bit more about his project as well Stephen yeah okay so that can be under my heading basically if you want but yeah yeah okay Rebecca okay hi Stephen um certainly yeah okay so um and and also MCB in general uh is that what you've would want would speak about um Stephen uh yes if you want it certainly great uh okay so MCB status Plus Stephen |
| 25:19 | right I think time to start then okay uh so has anyone got any comments about the ordering here if not I'll just go with this ordering okay then uh uh I'm not sure I'm not sharing what do you can't right this is I'm so the ordering this is what I'm talking about here if you could anyone have any comments about the ordering but if you put my pictures on at the end it will give me the rest of the meeting to try to find out what right uh Peter pictures of Greenland okay anything else when Doug uh |
| 26:15 | talks about Greenland um or Clive uh I just have a note from the Hudson Valley on some Greenland research that's really excellent okay okay um sure on Greenland right okay so let's start with Doug please oh I'm just grabbing some screenshots here you did you call my name yeah you're you're up first dog well we can we can we can do something else first but that's okay I just I can do that later um there's some really interesting screenshots that show where it is right in between Greenland and the little |
| 27:08 | island across the little street it's called The Last Chance ice Peter Peter probably knows about that so we're going to talk about um short-term impacts of equilibrium or how does it let's put it up here so uh does climate sensitivity matter in the short term so um I'm gonna wave my hands a little bit here so um Jim Hansen has a curve that basically goes up and and levels off look at my fingertips anyway and becomes asymptotic to 10 degrees off in 2150 or something and that's if you were to um go to Netflix |
| 27:50 | 21.50 oh sorry 21.50 yeah got it sorry again about 200 years out yeah at 100 years it reaches um 6.7 degrees which is the folding point or something I don't know some mathematical term then it levels off and becomes asymptotic so the trajectory is up not down and is this is this is for for what for for business as usual for Net Zero what is it net zero right now right right okay yeah so Jim Hansen is saying if we go to net net zero right now which was which was last year 2022 we would have this trajectory of of heat |
| 28:35 | going up to 10 degrees by 21.50 yeah way off in the future forever long a long time but it but in 100 years it would be like six degrees so it's it's a continuing Trend up now Michael Mann says we have one thing going this way and another thing going this way and they can't cancel each other out so when we hit Net Zero in 2050 the the trajectory of CO2 or maybe temperature I'm not sure which stabilizes and then within three or four years starts to go down and then cons continues to go down so we have the |
| 29:14 | opposite Trends between Hanson and man and I'm thinking we're not talking 2050 here we're talking 2030. you and I right now us chickens and so the cooling is in order to get that trajectory down now or as you know John put it in the diagram um Within I don't know 20 years or so have it actually trending down for 350 parts per million or um half a degree centigrade so the point is within the short window which we're talking about um it doesn't matter what Hanson or man whether one wins or the other wins and |
| 30:02 | you know Hansen has said it's going to be um uh No Holds Barred in his last book whatever that meant his his next book would be No Holds Barred um making the case and Michael man has got his his heels dug in on uh on his on the ipcc um best climate science you've never heard of as he calls it so I just want to put that out there does it really matter I'm I'm convinced I don't need to fight this battle anymore whether Hanson wins or loses we have to act now anyway we should change our message or not change we should |
| 30:40 | create a message which is which I think we're talking about we have to act now forget about what happens in 2050. um so I'm just I'm just saying it emphasizes that that um little battle that's going to go on between the two of them is irrelevant to what we're trying to do do people understand well there's a complication here that the amount of CO2 in the oceans is 40 times higher uh than the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and if you did try to reduce the atmospheric concentration uh the balance between the ocean and air |
| 31:21 | depends on the vapor pressures of CO2 and some of the CO2 in the oceans have come back out again and there's a paper by Ken Caldera and about 2000 I can't remember which shows that if you actually did stop all our missions now that's achieving in netzer the CO2 in the atmosphere decays very very slowly it's almost flat I could try and dig out the graphs of this uh but uh it looks as if um zero Net Zero is is really not on you can do zero emissions but you can't do zero concentrations um in fact I think that chart is there's a |
| 32:14 | chart like that that Michael Mann has pulled from the ipcc it shows that if you were to immediately cease emissions it would level out exactly as you described yeah but then okay that's CO2 but the temp with the temperature continue to climb uh I think the temperature probably would because of the the Hanson thing yeah yeah I agree with that so because Hanson includes uh secondary feedbacks yeah which is warming soil um which releases carbon dioxide from the soil and for example if you put some toast in the toaster it doesn't go Brown |
| 32:56 | straight away so take time to warm up that's right and and there's a lot of a really big thermal inertia um so Clive to your point man makes the the argument that the terrestrial flora and fauna and whatever on the not in the ocean but on the on the Earth on the on the continents will continue to draw down the soils will and the and the vegetation will continue to draw down CO2 um and what you're saying no it's not going to do that but I think it's the thing is that the the world the whole uh you know Globe the |
| 33:40 | Earth is is a hugely complicated thing and uh the the climate increasing there's going to be new places where there are droughts other places where you get more flooding and uh depends if forests are cut back it's very difficult to know what to include what not to include they don't include um or their ice models are not very good and I'm not sure if they ice models include all this black stuff that's arriving on the ice so it depends what model you what you include in your model and the other things I I don't I'm not |
| 34:13 | sure they so this idea that Net Zero then the temperature stays the same I think it's fine fine for the air but not for the ocean because the ocean is is is taking an awful long time to catch up just as Steven just said there's a huge thermal inertial in the ocean and so that will continue to to warm up over decades or centuries um as so that will make a difference so over the long term but that's how I understand it Doug so the the words it doesn't matter in the short term maybe is a good catch phrase |
| 34:50 | maybe we could build a a simple I'm always looking for a simple uh message yeah a 30 second elevators yeah that that is the key that people can can hook onto right that's all I'm trying to get to is yeah I think what message we want to say what does matter in the short term which is sorry um Rebecca yeah you just said then something like um the temperature I think you might have said the temperature stays level or even and I don't see how that can be the case no I didn't say the temperature stays level and I said |
| 35:28 | something like that and not just concentration to his level the temperature hasn't responded really yet yeah so even I said if the CO2 level this idea of Net Zero by 2050 which I regard as a sick joke anyway it's just the latest Target that they're not going to meet um but anyway theoretically if there was Net Zero by 2050 they're saying that the air temperature stays the same that's Michael Mann's argument as I understand it and and many others Susan Solomon a few others at least but but I'm not sure |
| 36:05 | that they include the ocean so as I understand it they don't include the ocean and because obviously the ocean has a huge thermal notion and it takes time to catch up so even if you have Net Zero in 2030 which is uh 2050 which is a bit of a you know very Theory but let's say it did happen the oceans it will continue to warm up and I think this is what Jim Hansen says and this should be included I mean that's it's ridiculous not to include the oceans well that is what I understand too but I thought you were sorry anyway keep going |
| 36:39 | yeah I'm I'm not okay that's that's what I said there we go so I I think for in terms of catch uh you know short phrases to catch people's attention I I understand I hear from people that you should say what don't say what what shouldn't be say what should be so say you know give the positive and say so that's why I like the re-brightening the planet but when we say rebrite in the planet it's like well why and what's you know what context what for so I think something about uh re-brightening the |
| 37:11 | planet that that to me is the the basis of you know that's the key message that that needs to be in a pithy catchphrase you could also say that if there's a bit of uncertainty between Hanson and man maybe it would be an idea just to pick the the the the the possibility of the worst case happening and having all the technology you might need to handle the worst case even in the hope that it didn't happen you should still have it just like you have armed services and you hope there isn't going to be a war |
| 37:48 | yeah yes just the off chance that Henson's right man is wrong yeah you shouldn't that shouldn't really change the actions that we do now about the research and the technology development that would be needed yeah yeah cater for the tail risk as it were yeah yeah I I fear that the way that people and civilizations move forward is by waiting for a huge Massacre and then saying oh dear that's bad isn't it so what can we do to avoid such a terrible catastrophe next time let's invent cannons or |
| 38:27 | something so we don't get beaten by the other side well time travel time travel would be good time travel you know Stephen Hawking um he had a it's called discounting the future discounting the future that's right yeah yeah he he had a uh a birthday party with all lots of balloons and uh nobody came from the future to congratulate him so he said that it proved the non-existence of time travel anyway never mind um so anything else so any other comments on Doug's um uh uh point about um about this climate sensitivity I'm I'm happy |
| 39:13 | with that that's good thank you all right Sev um so this is not a bad time for you to in case anybody doesn't know about boyfriend so tell us about Green Knights with um buoyant flakes okay well they're preparing this submission for the Congress and um I I sent them a bit of stuff on board Flakes and ring Cloud brightening and uh I've got a paragraph should I realize that they said sent back to me yeah um delighted to be assistants this is um this is me returning to them for blindflex technology it may help |
| 39:52 | legislators know that Florida has uh two gigatons of the best osmetic clay wastes currently occupying valuable land Louisiana and Texas have large quantities of red mud tailings rice growing states on the Gulf Coast and along the Mississippi produce huge amounts of rice husk and could readily turn their rice straw into valuable sugars and organosol lignin powder to glue and bind each flake this means that the Atlantic Ocean could become one giant mariculture rangeland one that has desirable co-benefits of cooling both air and Gulfstream water |
| 40:33 | and of reducing the destructiveness of extreme weather events sedomizers or indeed um Steven stuff might obviate West Coast droughts and Wildfire while ensuring the continuing productivity of the sand and wakin Valley in California all it takes to initiate these new Industries and jobs is a little government investment in r d plus developing suitable legal and mrv Frameworks in which to operate and he seemed to like that he said he's going to put all of that into the four pager fantastic I think he's might be on the noack list |
| 41:12 | actually uh John um so um sorry John for that so I'll have to edit that out it's not confidential never mind um okay good stuff yeah he he's one of um friends and I send our papers around um when we do a paper on this or that um since an events or something and John seems to be one of the few people I'm pretty pretty sure he reads what we send yeah you can only be sure who's actually read a paper that might be 10 pages long and you know requires a bit of concentration I think he reads things he actually does |
| 41:55 | read things so I was sending my stuff that's great so he's he's uh so okay watch this space then um if he gets some government money allocated point for buoyant Flex yeah and uh okay but um uh the center for climate repair Cambridge there's aren't they doing something with Point flakes yeah but they're doing um the research if if the U. |
| 42:21 | S Congress puts money into it they want to see action coming from not just research but um deployment well well approval uh and then the the modeling and then the uh the stage gated deployment yeah yeah okay now you chose what I was trying to do is to show uh uh hey hey John this is how you capture the interests of uh senators from these various States if it's going to give them a a boost in jobs and new Industries yeah yeah that's certainly a good message isn't it they like that that's for sure I have to get voted in |
| 43:05 | okay um what do you want to say about uh or ask about the Great Barrier Reef then Rebecca this is your spot you're muted right now sorry it just takes me a while to get organized um I know a bit about the Barrier Reef because I've read what there is to read I'm sorry the MCB project I don't know if they are actually evaluating their results as yet um but I'm interested in how it got started and um does anyone have any backstory and I do well that's good because that's what I'm most interested in and |
| 43:57 | so let's hear it then they did link up good yeah that's that Brian if you don't mind Brian yeah it's a bit in three chapters I think the earlier research has been conducted by um Dr Arman neukermans at uh Xerox Park in California and um perhaps concurrently or in parallel I mean oh no hats off to Stephen uh for all of his work and uh using renewable energy to generate the proper spectrum of particle sizes Etc um my understanding of the um there's a large political fund that was put forward |
| 44:36 | um for political reasons uh done here in Australia and it went to a um Foundation um that Foundation has funded rrap I forget the acronym uh the abbreviation what it stands for but rrap has about 100 million dollars and there were a bunch of researchers that decided they were going to try to replicate a lot of the system I think there have been some attempts to generate droplets and those so far has produced droplets that uh from a couple of opinions are much too large to have the desired effect I haven't heard of |
| 45:19 | any improvements there however I've been brainstorming a bit with Cambridge and California and um have a rather unusual approach that might complement Stevens you know hats off to Stephen on the um the the flattner rotors and the um you know being able to manage that when there's adequate wind um interestingly importantly our our tropical research has indicated that the most severe conditions occur during the doldrums when you have no wind you have no waves you have no current and the coral is bleaching and for that |
| 45:59 | application we find marine solar to be highly effective and I'm at the early stages of documenting a new and revolutionary approach that I believe is going to produce droplets of the correct size based on what I've learned from Armand and others that's right what's Marine solar is most effective I mean solar energy is an energy technology that it's you know it captures sunlight uh for example a floating photovoltaics that actually can ultimately be less expensive than a terrestrial solar because you don't have to purchase land |
| 46:38 | okay and you don't have to use fresh water so Marine solar is solar floating on the water that can collect energy and use it to produce droplets so it really is very complementary to Stephen's approach of using wind energy to produce the desired spectrum of droplets this is presently unfunded work but um I believe this very small amounts of support would enable us to actually conduct the experiments or out validate that it works and then begin deploying it in a scaled way on the Great Barrier Reef so |
| 47:12 | we're enthusiastic to try to make this work we don't have support for it yet but we'd love to explore this further in addition to supporting Steven's work okay all right thank you very much much um Brian um do you do you know anything about how Daniel Harrison got started and um we normally have John McDonald with us John's not here today as far as I can tell um are you there John uh no not so um and he uh was used to say that uh Daniel Harrison was uh doing a good job of kind of not he had a good um |
| 47:51 | sort of PR um style which was not to say this is going to save the planet but you know let's try it or something and because you always get people you know we push back uh pushing back against any idea about geoengineering so does that make sense um Rebecca it's very helpful and if anyone would like to know it's 750 million in the Great Barrier Reef preservation fund but anyway that there's that money waiting to be spent or what oh I haven't kept up with it recently but like money can always be reallocated of course money is |
| 48:28 | endless there's buckets of it all around the place yeah good to know well perhaps we can try to find some resources is that the same fund it is the same fund yes right and you know there are some interesting political challenges in accessing those funds we've had conversations with our rep in the past stand for uh uh hello I just I'm sorry I'm butting in here I don't have um it's Ron Bateman uh there's a very good uh uh podcast by a challenging climate uh where uh Harrison describes |
| 49:02 | in detail what they're doing and uh where the money's coming from and so forth that I'd highly recommend uh-huh a podcast okay how would we find that post podcast uh is challenging climate it's uh Reynolds and Irvine uh yeah just anywhere anywhere you know Apple podcast or Spotify or whatever there you go okay chat okay thank you Ron McDonald is online now yeah hi John hi John hi hi Clive hey apologies yeah maybe your ears were learning John right I've just um we're just talking about Daniel Harrison and the Great Barrier |
| 49:46 | Reef um thing uh the great Marine Cloud brightening thing and I've just looked up all right people couldn't understand I couldn't remember what rap stood for I put it so it looks like it might be reconcilion action plan does that ring any bells is the world's largest effort to help an ecosystem survive here we go Reef restoration and adaptation that's what that is so you're saying that that's got uh what was it 350 million or something else yes Rebecca indicated 750 million which would be an |
| 50:24 | increase over what decision funding was 750 million wow so it's come from the great Great Barrier Reef Foundation as well it's a mixture of sources of funding yeah mainly Southern Cross University of course you know that or Lewis world heritage status so you know uh is it doing more than just watching The Reef die slowly and uh let's hope that um yeah money and sense I could join client at some point this is where I first got involved but I was listening to a lot of research going on but no one was doing anything and |
| 51:08 | that's why I was attracted to the work that Brian was doing and and others like yourselves because this this talk of action rather than just just researching it and studying it through hmm yeah and John we have some recent updates on approaches to address uh uh Marine Cloud brightening on the Great Barrier Reef they're um I think uh far better than what's being done today and nicely complementary to what Steven's doing with wind except we're using Marine solar excellent yeah that's great |
| 51:39 | yeah they've made some progress I haven't heard very much lightly from what Daniel's doing um and I know Stephen you had some concerns about droplet sizes didn't you yes um the the big issue is whether what the right size is and uh whether you need to have a narrow spread and the Almond neukerman's technology which is what Daniel was using as the last I heard produces a rather wide spread of drop sizes some of them are in What's called the eight kin mode which uh may be too small and some are in the course mode |
| 52:20 | which may be too big I think that what you need to understand is the uh the work done by a truck called Kohler about the nucleation of drops just having a 100 humidity uh does not mean that you can turn water vapor into liquid water drops it has to have a tiny little seed a condensation nucleus they call it and it has to have a relative humidity that's just a bit above 100 percent so you need a higher humidity and the seat and the size of the seed uh depends on the chemical nature of it and the one of the very best materials for |
| 53:07 | nucleation is sodium chloride I think hydrogen peroxide is better but sodium chloride is rather widely available in the oceans and the if you look at the amount of extra humidity that you need for a 0.8 Micron drop of salt water which has about 10 to minus 14 grams of salt in it this is a tiny extra bit of humidity if you go to ones that are much smaller you have to have a higher humidity and the worry is that if you have uh big drops getting into uh the uh the area where there is the right sort of humidity the big drops will nucleate |
| 53:51 | first they'll go they don't need such a higher excess humidity so they start nucleating and the nucleation is removing water vapor from the air around and so this is reducing the humidity and that means that the poor little drops who need a bit High get completely starved out okay now on the other side of this is if you have big drops that are too big they will grab they'll nucleate first and they'll grow fastest and they might grow fast enough to construct producing rain because they get big enough to fall and |
| 54:29 | Gobble up other drops and so there's some work done by people in Norway in the Cicero Labs called alter sky and Christensen and they produced a paper which showed that if you're too small or too big everything works in the wrong direction and there is a rather narrow spread and I believe that narrow spread is the one that I picked which also happens to be very convenient for filtration and for micro fabrication which we need to make them so you've got the engineering requirements and the nucleation things |
| 55:10 | pointing to a narrow spread around about 0.8 I wish I knew exactly what it was but that I think is close to it yeah is that around 0.8 uh Stephen uh when it's humidified when it's when the droplet has liquid liquid water in fact the size of the drop really doesn't matter at all once it's out of the nozzle or the machine that's making it because it will either grow or or Shrink according to the local humidity if if it's what really matters is the mass of the salt and the number of successful nucleations |
| 55:45 | that you have and I've argued with almond and I've argued with Daniel about this and given them the the altuska Norwegian paper and uh the dispute has not been settled yet uh now uh I think that the uh the other thing about Daniel's work is that he thinks you only need to do it in the high summer and I think that's wrong as well because uh this enormous inertia of the water you think you should start a year before you need to have the water cooled and my work on the Hurricanes should begin in |
| 56:27 | November at the end of the last hurricane season and you were aiming to try and get the temperature of the one you want by June of the next year so we've got a tremendously good heatsink there and I I want to make sure that we we do these things in the best place all the time uh I'm a bit worried about solar panels I I can see that they're very very good provided that they never have to deal with uh Cyclones uh the the survival of the uh of the solar panel structure it's got to cover a very big area |
| 57:03 | um over the next life of 10 20 years how many Cyclones are going to go to that area so I would concentrate a lot on how to make the things Sarah and yeah we have found some good solutions for that uh and in our work with Marine permaculture right do do that first and uh don't make anything rigid you know making you out of super high tensile steel or guarantee it will fail it makes sense exactly really floppy okay yeah and I can send you some structures on this which we were looking at for uh with Bill Gates and |
| 57:45 | um intellectual Ventures uh you've got something that can move through about 35 meters without damaging itself and then okay excellent thank you Stephen look forward to following up I I I'd love to help help you do this but it's going to be 250 Micron polythene is what you want not uh anything really strong okay very good excellent uh no um did did Rebecca want me to talk about Marine Cloud brightening and where we've got to well the thing I'm particularly interested in is what funding do you need what is |
| 58:25 | blocking you and what help can anyone else give like I love that technical discussion just now and you've been obviously already working with Brian's group and now you know you're exchanging ideas but I am interested in what can anyone else do to help you based on where you are at the moment okay well uh I do I did apply to a call I think it was the one that was announced from it was from somewhere in Queensland uh probably five or six years ago and they turned me down uh even though I sent them the number of three verses I'd need |
| 58:56 | her coolings about a reef um the the present State uh that I I think Marine Club writing is very attractive is that uh it's short life means that you have control over where and when you're doing it and if you decide that it's the wrong place you can click your mouse and in a few days it's all back to where it would have been without you uh and the fact that you can do it with structures that are fast and mobile means that you can migrate with the seasons you can move them from the North Atlantic to the South Atlantic and you |
| 59:38 | can go all around the Pacific and that is another big attraction to me and another thing that's important is that the amount of energy that you need to make a condensation nucleus is the surface tension of water times the surface area of your tiny 0.8 Micron drop okay so you can work out how many tiny Pico joules you need to make one one nucleus you then can calculate that what how much energy is reflected by the drop that grows on it it grows on a condensation nucleus which might be 10 or 20 microns in diameter lasting for a |
| 1:00:21 | day or two and it's reflecting the sunlight over its projected area if you look at the ratio of those two energies it's absolutely enormous I mean it's many many millions whatever the assumptions you put on it's really staggeringly large so the energy gain is a very very powerful mechanism so you've got agile sources that can move around and stop quickly and have a very high energy gain ratio and uh I think that the uh the the the mere details idea will be very good you only need to cover two percent of |
| 1:01:03 | the Earth's surface with um mirrors but the trouble is if you've got a bright sunny day in a very cold winter which is what was happening in Texas a while ago who's going to turn him off quickly it isn't just one Mouse click to stop them cooling when you don't want them and I think that being able to stop quickly because your mega computer with an up-to-date satellite information it it gives you a message that you shouldn't be there and being able to stop quickly is a very very heartwarming satisfying safety uh thing |
| 1:01:41 | uh there will be times when we get it wrong and I want to be sure that we can stop when we when we're approaching that sort of thing bring it being able to to remove it is is is important to me yeah it makes sense did that answer your question uh Rebecca you're asking about about the funding uh okay well like for example will money help you get the right nozzle size or what exactly can anyone do to help okay um well so far all all the money that's gone into the uh the the hydrofoil vessels has come from a |
| 1:02:22 | gullible old age pensioner who's daughtering around and that's you that's much longer yeah and uh the the the knee what you need to do is to answer what the enemies are saying and the first thing is that we can't make the drops and uh I had a long conversation we're very fruitful with almond about uh the way I want to make drops if if you were given a sort of uh fifty thousand you've got a budget haven't you Stephen you've said that um you've got their drawings and you're it's all ready |
| 1:02:56 | to go except you're not going you don't want to employ people if you don't have sufficient budget because I'd rather have to let them go yeah I'd rather have no money than not enough money yeah how much do you need uh well I think I can answer all the questions for about two million pounds all right and after that we want to start making components and testing components and I think that would probably cost about uh 10 or 20 million to make sure that what we make is going to be safe and reliable right so the |
| 1:03:31 | initial tests to put to sort of uh sort of point a proof of concept would be two million pounds yes I think with that we can find out a lot more about the transfer function of what Marine Club writing does with an idea to use the a series of different kind of models but using them in a way where you switch the spraying on and off at random sequences in different places right uh you're making a pseudo-rounding patterns that are all different and then you correlate these sequences is what actually is happening in different parts |
| 1:04:10 | of the world and all your okay if you do it with over a long enough sequence which is about 20 years you can pick up changes in temperature and other stuff uh to but that is accurately zero a good thermometer okay this is called uh I call it coded modulation it's used in uh Electronics signal processing and we're picking up very very small signals buried in deep noise and I'm trying to get climate modelers to to try this idea it's been tried by one pH student as one chapter and one PhD and it worked rather well I cannot |
| 1:04:48 | get any of the others to replicate it and do it with uh smoother borders between the regions and and softer turning on turning off times okay and then I can yeah Rebecca's uh questions succinctly in that uh we could do a proof of principle of the Marine solar approach by the Great Barrier Reef uh with some tens of thousands of dollars or pounds uh and so a relatively small project would prove the principle we're located here in Queensland and we could do some limited scale deployments then once the proof of |
| 1:05:24 | principle had been established and uh you know and happy to share data with Stephen and with everyone's group I I I hope you've managed to do it but I can do proof of principle here this is testing all the Optics here these are four millimeter glass balls 40 Micron glass bolts so that's the end of that experiment oh that's wonderful and I guess the principle I'd like to do is to demonstrate the Marines dollar can in fact produce uh the desired droplet size and so we would like to do that Stephen |
| 1:05:57 | you might have some ideas on how to best measure a good droplet size um yes there are plenty of bits of equipment you can buy off the shelf that will do that but uh probably the quickest one is to spray it onto a glass and dry it out and look at the the sizes of the little cubes of salt in the under electromic scope that's the quick way to do it lovely yep and John you've got your hand up oh look I was just going to add to what Brian's saying I think it's this is tremendously valuable engineering what |
| 1:06:31 | you're talking about here Stephen and but I think we need to make it a really much more concerted effort here in Australia to test this is Brian's saying with the perhaps led by the climate Foundation but with the expertise of this group we need we've got all the expertise we need to do it here yeah and I I wrote to the minister of Education Tanya plenosec a few months ago and uh suggested doing exactly this test in Micronesia to to quilt the hurricanes and all the Cyclones we get here I got the the letter back yes there was a |
| 1:07:06 | standard government letter yo yes we're doing this sort of testing on the gov on the Great Barrier Reef already and and Daniel Harrison's doing that and I'd already referred to that and acknowledged that but the the answer was this is what you're suggesting is going to take 10 years to research and in the meantime we're just going to look at if we can have some effect on the coral but there's a much bigger a problem here that and because Daniel doesn't want to talk about geoengineering he only wants |
| 1:07:32 | to talk about adaptation anyone wants to do it for a few months you said that's right but it's a much more important exercise I think it would would help the reef as well but it's more than just the reef yeah but there's another experiment that he did which was showing the the plume of spray going upwards and uh if he was doing it with an efficient generation processes but actually initially go down because the the drops are evaporating very fast and that cools the air and the air goes down until it reaches the sea surface it |
| 1:08:09 | can't get into the sea and this waves breaking over it so it's then going to spread out across the cold air it's going to spread out across the sea big big surface area it will be picking up heat from the sea and maybe a few hours later it'll start moving upwards because of the turbulence in the Marine boundary layer so yeah experimentally showed apparently working is showing that he's got a very inefficient drop generation process you you could probably calculate the efficiency of all his pumps and |
| 1:08:41 | things from looking at how fast the plumes are rising out I I concur with Stephen that operation most of the year is advisable yeah uh if I could just uh according to the podcast he he he's resorting to foggings that might be interested in this uh fogging to cool because the Marine Cloud stuff uh in the podcast he says it's just it just doesn't seem to be working uh the way you know at least at a at a level that they had hoped it would which may relate to what Steven's saying well the fogging will stop the heat |
| 1:09:18 | getting into the sea but it'll get the heat into the fog and the or the air that's around the fog and then that'll move somewhere else and warm up the the the the the the sea foreign I'll just say there isn't much fog in the tropics because of the convective turbulence that Stephen uh refers to if you if you go you don't get trouble you can don't get fog in Hawaii uh you get fog in London and there's a reason yeah he's doing it artificially you could make fog it wouldn't do any any Cooling |
| 1:10:04 | might work if it's whiter uh that's possible but uh I I think getting exactly the right drop size is is really a proper Cloud a nice white cloud it sounds like a fallback you know situation so yeah right listen closely I mean just the the presence of the fog Stephen can confirm probably indicates the new those nuclei and the fog are vastly the wrong size right there and you know at that scale we're looking at much smaller and so the uh I just want to see how I can understand this so the the fact that |
| 1:10:42 | Daniel's plume Rose uh is because it was uh Gathering it was uh there was a lot of hot hot air coming out of his uh oh oh he's just that generator the mechanism he was using is is not very efficient uh well okay that's not not very scalable there's a lot of hot air coming out of his his diesel engine okay so okay not because it was condensing water from the air okay just because it's being pushed up by hot air okay yeah yeah I haven't seen a recent size distribution Spectrum I mean he did send |
| 1:11:20 | me one and I sent him back the paper from Walter Scar and Christensen which I could I'll give to you like uh and this is really quite clear that uh you've got to be careful about the right size and a narrow spread okay very interesting okay thank you uh let's move on um because we're running out of time Doug do you want to say something about this Kamchatka volcano yeah let me share a screen here I'll quickly go through um or could you and enable the sharing there you go try it now uh Peter can you see |
| 1:11:56 | um us now yes I can yeah okay so you should be able to see this can you see that yes okay so what I'm gonna if you could just talk I'm gonna go maybe two or three seconds maybe five seconds a piece and maybe you can just say a few words about them maybe you know more than I do so this is the last chance area this little this little spit of water is where they traveled 300 kilometers right along and through here and uh these these are very graphic images um if I could get right there we go so this is a close-up |
| 1:12:38 | and when I get closer in on the um and that's the destination down at the bottom 300 nautical miles what was that it's the news channel yeah that's correct yeah yeah so Peter you you talk about how people don't get it what the ice looks like up here this is supposedly supposed to be flowing like a river so they're still moving these images are they're pretty static because they were taken with a drone and there's one section where that really flows quickly but it's just it would be treacherous to |
| 1:13:21 | get out there in Into The Fray so to speak this he's in water he's creeping along between chunks of ice let's so this is this PBS uh film then is it 57 minutes long and I've gone through and sort of randomly taken some sample shots just to right just to show what and so what's the what was the surprise here then what was the surprise that they that it was uh they were they were trying to get out for their lives in order to meet the airplane that was going to uh evacuate them at the end of their project |
| 1:14:06 | um so they spent the whole time just trying to survive for three weeks or whatever right so was it was it melting more than they thought it would or or what was it yeah it had melted much more than they thought so they'd have been but wouldn't they have been stuck if it hadn't been hadn't melted so much they'd have been totally stuck wouldn't they it would just solid pass here counter-intuitive that's why I'm asking Peter um you can see there's clear water out here but they just can't get to it |
| 1:14:38 | okay so they thought there'd be channels they could go through today or something but it was all messed up so they couldn't get through it was all moving about or something yeah you see how close they are to the shore here and they've just it's impassable um there's some Open Water and there's there's shots of it where they're actually cruising right along in their car there's a very nice beautiful shot of him in the in the kayak next to these huge icebergs um okay so they were expecting an open |
| 1:15:10 | channel to to uh paddle through but instead it was all full of icebergs because uh or bits of ice shelf that had broken off and so it was impossible because they're worried about getting crushed between these different ice yeah I don't I don't understand uh what what it normally would look like maybe Peter has more to say about that yeah I think Peter's got some pictures um that we can see at the end um you were going to say something about the Kamchatka volcano as well um Doug oh just uh that um Tom grow mentioned it |
| 1:15:43 | with this and uh that he said that uh watch or um I want to stop sharing how do I stop I could I could take it off there we go watch for the dispersal of the aerosols up into the into the Arctic as opposed to the hangatanga which went down to the tropics so it is a perfect experiment setup yeah does anyone know about uh has anyone read anything about the Kamchatka volcano and it was just last week on the 14th I think yeah I think we'll have to find something and read it read about it no doubt um Tom and others will say something about it |
| 1:16:27 | like could I just say one thing which is that it's not a controlled experiment like it's a huge Blast from nature and the Sai people are talking about doing it for six months and then letting it not be up there I mean I'm using plain language but it's a completely different theme from the sort of thing that the testing people are talking about and so like we shouldn't get confused even if there is Cooling like there's going to be a lot of things we spoke about at the beginning probably |
| 1:17:00 | Ash settling up in the north where we don't want it and all that sort of thing but this is nothing really like what a test would be or or if but the main point about Sai is that we don't really know what's happening in the atmosphere and so it could end up having bad effects it'll it'll tell you about how how much the stuff will move around from where you put it in so you will be able to get some useful information at the moment I I I think that we don't know where the uh the Strategic aerosol |
| 1:17:38 | is going to end up uh they're assuming that it's going to all neatly drop down and be out of the way by the time the winter comes because if there's any of it left around in the winter it'll work in the wrong direction like a Downy um it'll reflect back the outgoing long wave so they want they want a short life and I think that they might find that it's a little bit longer than they'd rather they'd like to have so that would be rather useful research now somebody measure that and sit and see traces of |
| 1:18:09 | it in two or three years time that's maybe going to give a problem to statistical aerosol mm-hmm yeah I think of it as it might give you a couple points on the line on a line so given the assumptions of that particular uh eruption it would give you maybe two dots and you would have to connect the dots okay sorry we'll wait for another eruption I'll wait for another eruption yeah um it would depend on how much also you know in a period of time so if you do it if you do it very very slowly and gradually you you know it it it it might |
| 1:18:49 | last for a shorter period you could find the point Etc hmm yeah and so many measurements okay Peter um I don't want to miss your pictures um are you ready to put them up well I don't know what's happened to them because you said you didn't get them yeah I'd sent a parallel set to fans uh and uh they certainly went off by yesterday by uh the the the normal means and yeah well I don't understand why people haven't had them but I definitely I form part of a lecture which I give about um the uh |
| 1:19:43 | marine marine effect of um of um on the Green Egg ice cap of black ice and so there's lots of pictures of black ice um and uh in melting in the melting ice cap so it's it's it's it sort of concentrates one's attention on the role of black ice and uh so you need to be able to find this so far it seems to have vanished um so I I don't know whether I can just send you okay all right we can do something else I'm searching my inbox my spam and my trash I can't find I mean there's other emails from here in |
| 1:20:28 | the email so have a look yeah I will have a look yeah yeah okay I mean um and um well I suppose for anyone that didn't see um the uh the Greenland pictures I had up just a second ago this one here this is oh that's dogs one I think uh that's right so we've got Greenland uh a lot of a lot of pictures yeah yeah uh I mean I can I can we can play a little bit of this if you like if you just play play a couple of minutes [Music] why are you asking me to do that I I could I can do it here hopefully everyone's going to hear this now |
| 1:21:19 | and we don't know a lot about what path it takes but it's mostly vertical this is crowd science from the BBC World Service the show that goes to the ends of the Earth to answer your science questions I'm Marnie Chesterton that right there was Jason box a climatologist right now we're in one of the most remote locations this show has ever been ahead of the climate conference in Egypt this year this is part of a special we're doing inspired of course by you all listener questions and David in the UK |
| 1:21:52 | wants to know how long before the ice caps melt so we're here in Greenland home to one of the world's two remaining ice sheets to find out this ice sheet that I'm standing on is Ground Zero in the story of thori Greenland is melting fast and that's largely because temperatures in the Arctic are rising much faster than the rest of the world four times as fast in fact well the amount of melt water here has doubled in the last 50 years and that's what I can see in front of me rivers of water passing off this ice |
| 1:22:32 | sheet and down into the sea below last two decades Greenland was the leading contributor to sea level rise prior to that were Mountain glaciers and after Greenland will be Antarctica it's beginning to take over and as consequences for people all around the world who we started to get ready we can stop there I mean I think there's enough uh that must be just the trailer right because the movie is but the the movie is about as uh I don't know about 30 minutes there you go about 32 minutes 57 minutes is the one I |
| 1:23:21 | watched yeah no but I'm showing a different one here Doug I'm showing a thing about Greenland and the color of the ice on Greenland so I've moved on to okay onto my uh pot spot on the agenda sorry got it yeah that's all it is uh but we could see the black spots and their little ditch yeah we did you go back can you go back and list these things on this stage you you want to look at it again Peter yeah there's a couple of shops which are quite even foreign and often lots of energy so it's because |
| 1:24:40 | it's this black this black star is is is a very interesting because uh it's not it's not clear whether it's uh mainly biological or mainly physical in fact my the group only working with uh on the green dice sheet which I didn't manage to join this week because uh because I've got a problem with my legs um but they they've been collecting ice samples of that kind uh also this week and uh we're going to be analyzing them next week and it's uh and you also been taking samples in Sardinia and uh seeing if |
| 1:25:24 | it's sort of wood from wood smoke and and so forth yes I mean there's a huge um brush fire system going in Sardinia last year and um every Everything has got coated with with soot um so we've been looking at a scraping of the coating and seeing what it's made of and um the extraordinary thing is it's it's not uh well it's the main component of it is is actually um uh bullerines you were saying the other day it's a type of uh that means to follow the you know it's a type of um of |
| 1:26:10 | [Music] um sort of carbon structure is it yeah the structure is is a kind of cage like structure it's it is completely different from from normal um uh carbon and it does justify a title uh with despite the fact that the person who discovered it was out for personal Fame but it's it is a new material but there's a hell of a lot of it around that that you find that um where there's been uh science fires the this this material coats that the sort of such fine coats and it's a uh it's a it should be an |
| 1:27:04 | important component yeah and you were saying there's been a a huge fire burning in Siberia for the last three years non-stop uh yes again I've got some uh vertical aerial photos of that um it's been the biggest the biggest area of forest fire um in the world and except it's not Forest it's kind of tundra it's kind of Tundra with which has got um uh various other materials mixed in with it and it's it's not getting any treatment from the Russians they're just leaving it yeah it was actually a very |
| 1:27:52 | serious um contribution to to um what's going on in Greenland and in the North Pole and the Arctic ice sheet presumably as well well yeah that was the theory is which which we have this theory that that uh the the fire uh the permanent fire that's Burning uh in on the Siberian Coast is continually releasing um uh releasing carbon and that's that is what's coaching the the the blackening of the ice sheet so the blackening of the ice sheet comes from um coating of uh of the eye spy products for that smoke yeah yeah and |
| 1:28:47 | once again France and and you know with my support is proposing a method for Whitening black carbon aerosol um with uh a titanium hydroxide a titanium based um system that um that and you've also quote you've also cited um uh papers that say that a lot of that black black carbon in the ice in Greenland and you know in the in the Arctic it comes from uh India and China from from Southeast Asia right so yes um yeah it goes right up to the stratosphere It Comes Around by Brewer Dobson who makes an Arctic Haze which we |
| 1:29:33 | said all this two weeks ago and it prevents heat loss during the during the winter because you've got all this black stuff Haze in the atmosphere and then it comes down in the snow and then we've been there and there we see it on Greenland um and so the the best yeah the the the best use of this black carbon aerosol whitening technology would be to actually install it right where the flues are right above the chimneys or where they've got where they're where they're flaring methane around the world |
| 1:30:01 | um you know uh I think it's just above those methane flares or just just there basically so make it part of the equipment um it's much more difficult when you've got a huge fire you know massive amounts of smoke coming over from thousands of miles into the air could still be dealt with but it'd be a much much bigger operation using aircraft to to spray this uh aerosol stuff that but it also removes methane as well because it's photosensitive there's nothing else to say about it I think Peter said |
| 1:30:33 | Russians do nothing against yeah they do nothing to put it out yeah well they're busy fighting a war or whatever or maybe they just want to the world to warm up so they can drill the oil in the Arctic that's a possibility actually yeah this is what John Nissen says uh anyway we're nearly out of time um I wonder if there's anything out what else could we do here um um I'll take that but uh the the black spots yeah they clamped together so yeah they yeah Affinity to each other yeah it's here like they yeah they Clump |
| 1:31:14 | together yeah okay just I know it's almost out of time and I'm sorry yeah does anybody have any idea how much short-term cooling could be could be achieved by removing methane I mean how how realistic and how fast and what portion of the methane is is possible to to reduce quickly to get some short-term cooling effect yeah we calculated five years I think depending how much you know is done how serious it's done but it could be done in in five years with a thing like iron salt aerosol but we've got a better idea than |
| 1:31:51 | that now I think how how much cooler did you do you have a estimate of uh we differently we didn't we only did a very crude way so we thought it'd be minus 0.2 degrees to change but other people have said more like 0.6 degrees centigrade to change but the other thing is um if you have to me the important thing is is this melting of the of the Arctic the Greenland and the Arctic area polar region and uh so it's the the the uh the white clouds making clouds either using Stevens you know Steven's |
| 1:32:31 | mechanism Marine Cloud brightening I mean all of the above I mean I don't think to me they're both both should be looked at and both should be funded with a matter of huge urgency it should be a wartime footing instead of which it's like oh no forget it oh we don't think it'll work go away sorry I want to go back to sleep I just don't understand it but we clearly we're not getting the message out um so I was hoping Paul Anderson would be here because he's interested I'd I'd |
| 1:32:57 | like to again make something that's more accessible because we talk about uh the the you know the technical details here which someone someone needs to do that to make sure it's safe and you know cost effective and would actually work and this sort of thing but um it needs to be at a Layman's level anyway um Manor Joe thank you thank you sure Ron yeah I I just wanted to say that I put in the chat uh Margie turns um presentation or having just come back from research in Greenland uh she's with |
| 1:33:34 | Lamont Daugherty Earth Institute and um part of the series that we're we're doing here in the Hudson Valley to educate people about climate science and thank you and um I have the video which we'll be posting on a website that we're creating um and uh my hope is that some of the scientists that were bringing to present to help educate people uh will be open to uh some of these uh restoration technologies that are being proposed thank you great thank you manager and Doug very quick uh question does anybody |
| 1:34:25 | know where Dave borless lives is he in UK or yeah he's in the UK did anybody have a connection with him uh I do what about if we got him to come on the and have a chat with us um I've invited him and yeah yeah I actually had a chat with him about six weeks ago or two months ago or something brilliant and uh yeah um I was introduced to him and he he thinks much the same way as that's not exactly the same but similar um and he he said so you know Rebecca and I have uh coincidentally separately initiated conversations with him and |
| 1:35:06 | um ready to pop the question well you're ready to pop the question what questions will you come join us for a hat for an hour hour and a half yeah uh I think he yeah he he's he gets a lot of invitation of course he's very busy he spends a lot of time doing his graphics and things I think he needs peer-reviewed stuff so I think maybe yours stuff Stephen you've got have you got peer-reviewed papers on Green Cloud writing got two right so um yeah I mean I can send you his email if you if you like yeah |
| 1:35:47 | um so okay so you have his actual email because I've been using his uh his uh what a sub stack or patreon or whatever it is yeah you put that in the chat um I think it was shared with me sort of Vince okay I don't have to be sort of I think he's got let me look back again because I think he's got one that he tries to sort of manage it because he gets thousands you know um he's got one I think he has to move on so um but let me have a look but anyway it's it's more important to get Steven's |
| 1:36:23 | peer-reviewed papers like he actually answered me and he's interested in what I have offered him and he's having a think about it which is what his profession is just having a think yeah so I'm writing down here Dave paulus Stephen peer review David borless you might want to uh remind him that he is there's an outstanding off required three of us well I mean the point is what would he be saying to us um don't we have to think a bit more before we just well we would uh so you and I have kind of laid the groundwork |
| 1:36:58 | but we could actually focus on Steven's paper and um and just go over that with him and build some uh sort of trust confidence between us yeah not a bad idea my papers are very old I think uh I think they're uh I think we really need to do something a bit more up to date the the design has changed quite a lot well we can put it to him and say is he interested in this uh you know it's there could be a more up-to-date paper but this is what we've got um yeah we have to use what we've got assistant session effort Stephen |
| 1:37:40 | um I I should be I should be finishing a paper that I started a long time ago and um I found it actually very difficult to get anything published now the one that I'm most proud of was commission for a Phil trans publication and was rejected by one of the referees even though it had been originally commissioned uh and um how many years ago was that Stephen um it was uh for a publication that's coming out in 2009. |
| 1:38:19 | okay because I think that both the physical and political climate has changed substantially um in the integrating years so if I can be of any assistance happy to work with you on it okay I'll I'll dig it out again but the there's a there's been quite a lot of change to the way the engineering Hardware uh I've I've been I'm looking for all the problems that will go wrong and then looking for other ones that will go wrong and it's good yeah and that's the part in terms of an |
| 1:38:48 | engineering update where I think uh you know could help quite quite a bit and uh you know if we were to try to work on an engineering update I think that would be great because uh okay I think both wind and solar will be very important for marine Kyle brightening going forward yeah yeah okay Peter um do can I ask do you mind sending us those pictures maybe send them in several emails maybe putting too many pictures in one email it might just say yeah that's too much or something too much much data uh yes okay |
| 1:39:24 | um it was um you know take a while to get that through it there's something has gone wrong somewhere yeah I've searched and searched again I can't see anything yeah we should let you know 10 megabytes for each email 10 megabytes is usually the maximum is it yeah and some of these pictures if they're high definition they can take up quite a lot um I don't want to keep everybody um You're Expecting 90 minutes uh anything any last thing from anyone well I thought it was a very good meeting thank you everyone |
| 1:40:00 | thank you uh likewise thank you all yeah really likewise yes thanks everyone it's it's always a privilege see you again in two weeks don't forget to turn off the recording I won't forget I'm gonna leave I'm gonna end it I'll tell you it's going now goodbye |